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View Diary: "You think gays have rights?" (232 comments)

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  •  One question worth asking (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    codairem, kyril, caul, aitchdee, RockyMtnLib

    is why you believe theologians are relevant to these issues and discussions?  Theologians are academics whose work has next to no influence on the lay.  These are issues pertaining to really existing social institutions, religion as it is actually practiced, and what people in these groups statistically believe.  Evoking theologians who have no impact on these institutions and practices just misses what these debates are about.  When those theologians command large swaths of the lay then we can talk.  

    •  wish I could recommend this 100 times! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kyril
    •  How big a swath do you need (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kyril, aitchdee

      Rabbi Greenberg more or less single-handedly created space for gays and lesbians within the modern orthodox community.  If you care at all about how religious gays who do not wish to leave their communities are treated, he's somebody you should pay attention to.

      •  This is wonderful, but (0+ / 0-)

        also the exception, not the rule.  My point is simply that if we want to understand what religion is, we need to focus on what the lay believe and practice, not the formalizations of theologians.  The question is one of how these institutions really function and act in the world.  We should treat these institutions sociologically and ethnographically and investigate them the way we'd investigate any other group.

    •  I'm reminded of the quote from Edward Gibbon... (0+ / 0-)

      author of The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire:

      The theologian may indulge the pleasing task of describing Religion as she descended from Heaven, arrayed in her native purity. A more melancholy duty is imposed on the historian. He must discover the inevitable mixture of error and corruption which she contracted in a long residence upon Earth, among a weak and degenerate race of beings.

      Is it courageous to propose tax cuts but not identify a single tax expenditure to rein in? Is it courageous to target your deepest cuts on the poorest Americans, who vote in lower numbers and provide little in campaign contributions?

      by caul on Sat Mar 30, 2013 at 01:25:51 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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