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View Diary: New Rule: Public Means Public. (33 comments)

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  •  That would be an acceptable basis for a toll road. (2+ / 0-)
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    AoT, cal2010

    I.e., balancing one public good (climate) against another (transit).  But there would have to be some mechanism for ensuring that it doesn't have a regressive economic effect.

    Business doesn't distinguish between making money and taking money.

    by Troubadour on Fri Mar 29, 2013 at 03:09:03 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Well funded and broad reaching (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Troubadour, cal2010

      public transportation would mitigate most of the regressive economic impacts. Other than that you could make exceptions for food trucks so as to not drive up prices, although I'd bet that tolls are a minimal part of food prices. Having less people driving would mean gas is cheaper, so food prices would be cheaper as well. It would be mostly a win in my eyes.

      If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

      by AoT on Fri Mar 29, 2013 at 03:34:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Of course, gasoline taxes would work just as well (0+ / 0-)

        and would incentivize the transition to EVs.

        Business doesn't distinguish between making money and taking money.

        by Troubadour on Fri Mar 29, 2013 at 03:46:44 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  In the long run personal autos simply (0+ / 0-)

          aren't sustainable, whatever their fuel source. Better to start phasing them out now rather than go through another big infrastructure change down the line. I'm rather skeptical about our ability to produce and transmit the electricity need to run all of those clean cars, although I haven't really seen anything either way. There are a lot of other alternative solutions, especially for urban and suburban areas. If we're going to think big, and you are which is great, then we should think further ahead as well.

          If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

          by AoT on Fri Mar 29, 2013 at 03:50:51 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I've seen no evidence that they aren't (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            AoT

            sustainable, nor have I heard any arguments to that effect.  Moreover, the evolutionary path of EVs is toward ever more efficiency, with no end in sight of the potential progress.  They may evolve into something other than what we recognize as the personal automobile, but there's no reason to claim that the path along the way is environmentally detrimental.  None.

            Business doesn't distinguish between making money and taking money.

            by Troubadour on Fri Mar 29, 2013 at 04:05:17 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  When I say personal auto (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Troubadour

              I mean specifically what we have now, a ton of vehicle carting around a single person. A much smaller and lighter vehicle that is for one person as opposed to a vehicle built for four carting around one person. We'll always have some powered vehicles, but they'll be significantly different.

              The main problem with sustainability and the auto is physical resources. If our goal is to get the world up to a standard of living that is roughly equivalent to the developed world then we would simply lack the amount of metal to build all the cars.

              Either way, I think dense urban areas should be car free. There's no reason to have down town to have a ton of cars if there are other options.

              If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

              by AoT on Fri Mar 29, 2013 at 04:21:54 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Possibly, but as far as toll roads are concerned (0+ / 0-)

                there's no reason to discourage EVs to the same extent as gasoline cars, so gas taxes would work better at addressing externalities like climate change and sustainability.  To the extent that the other solutions you mention would be more efficient, they'll happen inevitably anyway, and getting there won't be environmentally damaging.

                Business doesn't distinguish between making money and taking money.

                by Troubadour on Fri Mar 29, 2013 at 04:44:52 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

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