Skip to main content

View Diary: Retaining assault weapons has no rational basis (80 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  This is the thing that makes me crazy. (7+ / 0-)

    So much time and energy has been spent trying to ban pistol grips and bayonet lugs, we've lost the momentum on actual, substantive changes like background checks, trafficking, and straw purchases. (And yes, magazine capacity.) Short-sightedness trumps progress, and in the end we get "none of the above".

    "The President is trying to make it tough on members of Congress. It's just sick." -- John Boehner (R-WATB)

    by OldSoldier99 on Sun Mar 31, 2013 at 09:14:37 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Actually the opposite is true (8+ / 0-)

      The strategy of the NRA is not to "accept" any restrictions -- they intend to nibble away at each little part of any bill. That is happening as we speak.  That is what they did with assault weapons (and to be clear, magazine size is another component of assault-style weapons, and should be restricted as well I agree).

      But the logic of not having assault weapons roaming the streets is so strong, I think we must at least allow a vote on it in the Senate -- and not let Reid succomb to NRA pressure.

      We can still get the best outcome available if that amendment to the bill is voted down.

      •  Do you see how it helped the NRA though (4+ / 0-)

        This recent AWB? I think swift action on magazine sizes, carry restrictions, background checks, etc would've been successful AND knocked the wind out of the NRA. But no, pistol grips.

        I see what you did there.

        by GoGoGoEverton on Sun Mar 31, 2013 at 09:34:32 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I completely agree on the need to allow a vote. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        EdMass, Kickemout, Cedwyn

        I think Reid is showing his habitual spinelessness on this issue.

        For me, one of the main problems with attempts to ban "assault weapons" is the focus on all the scary-looking stuff with no real understanding of the mechanics. It seems like a panic reflex, with no real though being given as to what's really meant. Badly thought-out legislation makes for badly-implemented laws. The previous AWB was a shining example.

        "The President is trying to make it tough on members of Congress. It's just sick." -- John Boehner (R-WATB)

        by OldSoldier99 on Sun Mar 31, 2013 at 09:39:01 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  asdf (0+ / 0-)

        That may be wishful thinking.

        While that may work out for the best in terms of dealing with gun violence, letting the NRA cut a deal after defeating signature gun control legislation pushed heavily by Democrats is a worst case scenario.  Rather than taking the chance to kill the gun issue once and for all with a universal background check system that robustly protects the rights of gun owners, we've picked an unnecessary fight going into 2014.  

        When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

        by Patrick Costighan on Sun Mar 31, 2013 at 05:07:35 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  won't matter (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          WakeUpNeo

          Trust me...the NRA is going to aggressively oppose even the slightest restriction no matter what. They said they would support background checks, then qualified that, then opposed them etc.

          Getting some sort of gun control that is close to meaningless just gives them time before another bill would likely come up -- then the will oppose that. We all know that it is the gun manufacturers behind the NRA and they do not give a damn about a safer America -- they just want to sell product.

          I would go for the whole enchilada right now; and if that fails, sure we can go to Plan B, but why give in so quickly???

          •  Trust you? (0+ / 0-)

            Do you have some sort of inside track into the NRA leadership's thinking and plans?  And if the NRA can evolve its position one way, why can't it evolve it the other?  Especially if allowed to do so in a time and fashion of their choosing?

            Whatever you think about gun manufacturers, do you think that industry isn't cognizant of the fact that they're facing off against a single man whose company made more last year than their entire industry combined?  Do you think gun makers relish in living from ban crisis to ban crisis?  We're talking about an industry with thin margins, lots of moms and pops, and a reluctance to grow to meet demand.  

            Plan A sucks, is why.  It actually has a pretty severe downside.  Plan B doesn't, and should have been Plan A in the first place.

            When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

            by Patrick Costighan on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 09:47:29 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  No inside track... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              WakeUpNeo

              I do not need it. Their actions are clear. They are quite specific about their goals. They have been on talk shows constantly with very clear messages. And I doubt there are very many "mom and pop" gun manufacturers -- most are huge and rely on government contracts for military weapons; and the big box retailers and gun dealers for the civilian product They are a massive lobby, and in my opnion have many legislators in their pocket.

              Much of the paranoia about "government tryanny" and "taking away all our guns" comes from their efforts -- fortunately, even a lot of their members so not approve of all their methods (and madness).

              •  Tea leaves (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                andalusi

                Here's my read.  The NRA has placed its bets on the Republicans, and it will act in the GOP's best interests.  If that means supporting universal background checks, especially if they can marshall up a substitute to the Democratic bill and get it through the house, then that's that.  Especially if they can do it and eliminate a whole host of gun rights bugaboos at the same time (or at least position themselves for rolling back AWBs and registries at any level of government).  If they can do that and punish Democrats, they will.  

                There are four big manufacturers.  Ruger is the largest, with 1100 employees and $150 million in annual revenue.  The vast majority of gun manufacturers are small and medium businesses, and almost all are privately owned.  The entire industry is about $6 billion a year; peanuts, considering Bloomberg LP pulled in $7 biliion in a year.  This is the big scary gun lobby we're supposed to hate and despise.

                When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

                by Patrick Costighan on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 12:21:39 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  correction (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  WakeUpNeo

                  It is a $12 billion business; and you are correct, there are many small manufacturers. But all this fear of regulation has been a boon to the industry, and they are benfiting from "fear". Moreover, it is not just the manufacturers who can support and pay for a potent lobbying program; the NRA itself has massive funding. Among the largest lobbyists influencing congress, the gun industry is in the top group (right up there with drugs and energy)

                  •  6 billion (0+ / 0-)

                    According to Christian Science Monitor:

                    3. $6 billion
                    The estimated revenue brought in by the US gun and ammunition manufacturing industry in 2012, according to a financial report by the research firm D&B First Research based in Austin, Texas. The major manufacturers include Browning Arms, Freedom Group, Olin, Aliant Tech Systems, Sturm, Ruger & Company, and Smith & Wesson.  The biggest companies are Ruger and Smith & Wesson, which represent about 30 percent of the industry.

                    Obama’s presidency has been a boon for gun makers, prompting industry analyst Jim Barrett to call the President “the best thing that ever happened to the firearms industry,” in an Associated Press interview. According to an October analysis from AP,  Ruger’s sales have increased 86 percent since Obama took office; Smith & Wesson’s have gone up 41 percent.

                    And what happens when the boom dies and you're faced with entire large markets closed off to you?

                    When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

                    by Patrick Costighan on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 03:30:12 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Perhaps you are right (0+ / 0-)

                      I have seenvarious numbers on the size of the industry -- some include ammo and related products. An interesting view is this one "everything you wnat to know about the gun industry"
                      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

                      At any rate, my concern is far less for the viability of the industry than it is for the safety and well being of our society. Many industries have mostly disappeared as our society (and businesses change). Que sera.

                      •  asdf (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        andalusi

                        In case you forgot what we're talking about, we were discussing the relative power of the gun rights movement and the gun control lobby.  I believe I've just adequately demonstrated that the gun control lobby is significantly better positioned.

                        When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

                        by Patrick Costighan on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 12:56:00 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

    •  asdf (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      OldSoldier99

      Disagree on magazine capacity, which I also find a waste of time, but pretty much everything else is right on.

      When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

      by Patrick Costighan on Sun Mar 31, 2013 at 05:04:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site