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View Diary: Re: NRA's Worse Nightmare: Gun Confiscation. Why Hasn't it Happened Yet? (101 comments)

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  •  it's not always so "cut and dried" (7+ / 0-)

    given the Stand your Ground laws:


    The fatal flaw in 'Stand Your Ground' laws
    by jamess -- Jan 02, 2013


    It used to be, a Deadly Threat had to be present and imminent,
    before you could "legally" respond in kind,

    with legal "deadly force."


    Now it's not so clear.  Some reading/interpretations of SYG,
    find that you only have to "feel threatened"

    to respond with non-equal "deadly force."

    Even when that threat was unarmed. Even in public places.
    Talk about slippery slopes.

    •  There is no 2A right to be a menace with a gun, (6+ / 0-)

      not to oneself or to others.

      David Waldman's weekly GunFail series is testament that significant guns are in the hands of people who ARE A MENACE to themselves and others.

      The series Just Another Day in the Gun Grazy USA provides daily reminders that permissive gun policy has enabled one industry to profit handsomely from the flow of a dangerous legal product into the hands of people who can and do create a menage with a gun.

      "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

      by LilithGardener on Sun Mar 31, 2013 at 01:09:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  So how to address this: (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        noway2
        significant guns are in the hands of people who ARE A MENACE to themselves and others.
        How do you remove guns from those who already have them, yet are apparently a threat?

        Do you go after law abiding citizens with further restricting of their rights or do you impose further penalties and stricter sentences for gun criminals and their deeds?

        The first idea does zero to remove guns from those who have them already and yet are a threat....the second idea has a chance of deterring them, even a small one is better than zero chance.

        •  The first step to solving any problem is admitting (3+ / 0-)

          that it exists. Simplistic black and white choices do not reflect reality. There is no simple pool or law abiding gun owners vs. a pool of criminals.

          ...law abiding citizens with further restricting of their rights...
          The current state of failure has many inputs, not least of which has been a sustained attack over many years against policies that improve gun safety and increasingly permissive gun policy, that imposes the menace of untrained/careless/impulsive/angry gun owners in the public domain.  

          Would you clarify what you would be willing to do, to separate unsecured firearms from the hands of minor children?

          Would you clarify what you would support to separate lawful alcohol use from lawful RKBA?

          "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

          by LilithGardener on Sun Mar 31, 2013 at 04:34:50 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Sure (0+ / 0-)
            Would you clarify what you would be willing to do, to separate unsecured firearms from the hands of minor children?
            Enforce child neglect laws for one....your child gets a hold of an unsecured weapon and hurts themselves or others or is simply seen or known to have been placed with an unsecured weapon and you risk using your children.  Use public messaging to make this crystal clear.  Impose even stricter penalties for gun crimes committed by those who have no legal right to have a gun in the first place and yet use them in a crime.  Hold parents criminally responsible, IF the gun was given to a child with known reasons not to have one and/or a crime was committed with the gun and the child obtained the gun from a parents home and the gun was unsecured.  Perhaps make new laws that would require supervision of an adult if a child uses a gun ever. (this idea would have the most opposition....since some children are quite capable and responsible and compete and/or hunt regularly....I have used guns since the age of about 7 or 8 and won my first college scholarship at the age of 9)
            Would you clarify what you would support to separate lawful alcohol use from lawful RKBA?
            I completely support laws that prohibit the use of a gun while under the influence of alcohol and/or prescription drugs that would hinder your ability to use a firearm responsibly.   I feel the threshold of "under the influence" and/or penalties should be along the same lines as drunk driving.  

            None of these ideas further restrict a law abiding gun owner nor make them have to change their own gun owning ability at all and would also work.

            None of these ideas target the law abiding and only put the restrictions and further penalties on those committing crimes.

             Even in the case of parents responsible for children's safety...this is already law and if a parent puts a child in danger in any regard and that danger was neglectful....they are not law abiding but themselves criminals and breaking the law.

            Can I ask you for your ideas?

            •  Are you aware that fewer than half the states (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              oldpotsmuggler, a2nite

              prohibit sale of a firearm to someone under the influence of alcohol?

              "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

              by LilithGardener on Sun Mar 31, 2013 at 05:09:12 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  The focus of this diary (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Neuroptimalian

              is about some citizen's fears of confiscation.

              I was responding to your apparent concern with "further restrictions" which you frame as:

              ...law abiding citizens with further restricting of their rights...
              I find the idea of confiscation ludicrous even without our history of strong RKBA permissiveness. The practical barriers are too high; it takes multiple officers significant time, and incurs significant risk that an officer would get shot. We don't have the manpower, or the time.

              "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

              by LilithGardener on Sun Mar 31, 2013 at 05:23:36 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  ok, but you asked me my views on two particular (0+ / 0-)

                issues and I answered.  I wish to know your views for discussion:

                Would you clarify what you would be willing to do, to separate unsecured firearms from the hands of minor children?

                Would you clarify what you would support to separate lawful alcohol use from lawful RKBA?

                •  I've discussed my views repeatedly - and you (0+ / 0-)

                  dKos has a search feature that you can use to satisfy your curiosity easily.

                  Sorry, but even if I had the time, I must refrain from indulging your attempt to thread jack Jamess' diary.

                  "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                  by LilithGardener on Sun Mar 31, 2013 at 06:06:44 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Wow, really. You asked questions and I was kind (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    KenBee, noway2

                    enough to explain in detail my views to "satisfy your curiosity" and did so with true desire to have a discussion about it...since YOU asked and all.

                     Yet you apparently can't even answer the same question you drilled me on.

                    Ok, then.....don't worry about it.  I know the answer now.  No need to explain.  

                     

                    •  Sorry, if you misunderstood my comment (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      jamess, a2nite

                      It wasn't personal.

                      This diary is not the time nor the place, we are Jamess guests here.

                      I have already engaged in lengthy discussions with several RKBA members re my support for RKBA and where I think states will go forward if Federal level regulations fail. The next time I do have time, I'll send you an email so you can join in, if you care to do so at that time.

                      No way was I implying that you should care what I think. Just that if you can't wait to know what I think, it's all there at your finger tips in my diaries and comments.

                      "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                      by LilithGardener on Sun Mar 31, 2013 at 06:41:57 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

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