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View Diary: Daily Kos Elections Live Digest: 4/2 (299 comments)

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  •  Nelson is not right around the corner (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LordMike, ArkDem14, betelgeux

    He's extremely religious, outdone only by Pryor.

    Heitkamp won't, Johnson might if his son doesn't run for anything, Landrieu has already put out a confusing statement and certainly won't embrace this cause until the election, and Manchin is also a never-gonna-happen.

    That leaves us only with Donnelly, who I view is the most likely candidate left to change in the next few weeks and even then I really doubt he will.

    23 Burkean Post Modern Gay Democrat; NM-2 (Raised), TX-20 (B.A. & M.A. in Political Science), TX-17 (Home); 08/12 PVIs

    by wwmiv on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 09:04:03 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Heitkamp should... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      The Caped Composer, JBraden

      since she doesn't have to face re-election for six years.  I see Johnson, Nelson, and Landrieu as possibilities, Donnelly seems less likely because he is pro-life, and Manchin and Pryor never will.

    •  Landrieu's statement (8+ / 0-)

      sounded to me like she was basically saying that she personally supports marriage equality, but doesn't want to come out and say so until she's sure her constituents are on board.

      So I would expect her to come out in support of it eventually.

    •  Nelson is the only one of the seven (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lordpet8, James Allen

      that I know of who even publicly supports civil unions.  Lots of Dems who are "extremely religious" have supported marriage equality.

      White Male, 36, New FL-14 (Castor), proud father of a 4-year-old daughter. "This is Wendy's guys! This is Wendy's!" - Mitt Romney, October 9, 2012.

      by spiderdem on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 11:41:23 AM PDT

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    •  why are you so pessimistic on Heitkamp? (0+ / 0-)

      ND should be fairly evenly split on the issue by 2018, and unlike Donnelly's firm "no" statement, she kind of danced around the issue.

      Living in Kyoto-06 (Japan), voting in RI-01, went to college in IL-01.

      by sapelcovits on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 03:25:32 PM PDT

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      •  How would it play in ND? (0+ / 0-)

        I don't agree but I get where people like Landrieu and Pryor are coming from politically, being from very social-conservative states (although I think Landrieu is personally on board with SSM but is waiting until November 5th 2014 to announce, her statement seemed to indicate that.).  I can't imagine that being pro marriage equality in ND in 2018 would ruin her chances at reelection.

    •  Motivations (0+ / 0-)

      I think Landrieu and Murkowski both secretly support equality but are reluctant to do so due to the electoral implications.  

      The most courageous ones (other than those who were supporters before it was cool) are Begich and Hagan, both of whom are up for re-election this cycle in red states.  By the time McCaskill and Tester are up, nobody will care anymore, although credit to them is due for showing support from red states (unlike some others).

      There are also others who obviously could care less either way and are just getting on the bandwagon (Carper, probably Casey).  Some in this same group may be concerned about their next election if they DON'T support equality (Kirk, possibly Casey).

      Some people are just assholes, regardless of their states.  Nelson is definitely an asshole, since he is not up until 2018 and represents a purple state.  Johnson is a likely asshole but may be worried about damaging his son's chances.  The others represent deeply red states, but we need to consider that Heitkamp, Manchin, Pryor, and Donnelly are just fucking assholes who wouldn't support equality from any state.

      •  Not everyone who disagrees with us on an issue (4+ / 0-)

        is an asshole.  Rhetoric like that is part of the problem.

        However, Murkowski's considerations aren't electoral.  By 2016, supporting SSM should be pretty neutral in libertarian-leaning Alaska and she has shown she can win without winning the GOP primary so she doesn't need to even necessarily worry about that.

        20, CA-18 (home), CA-13 (school)
        politicohen.com
        Socially libertarian, moderate on foreign policy, immigration, and crime, liberal on everything else.
        UC Berkeley; I think I'm in the conservative half of this city. -.4.12, -4.92

        by jncca on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 04:25:04 PM PDT

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        •  well, (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          bpfish, askew, Chachy

          if "asshole" doesn't describe someone who supports discrimination against a class of people because of "personal preference," then maybe"selfish douchebag" does?

          Living in Kyoto-06 (Japan), voting in RI-01, went to college in IL-01.

          by sapelcovits on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 04:34:38 PM PDT

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          •  I get that it's personal for you (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            aamail6, nimh

            but there are many people who don't have progressive views on gay rights issues who are nice people.

            20, CA-18 (home), CA-13 (school)
            politicohen.com
            Socially libertarian, moderate on foreign policy, immigration, and crime, liberal on everything else.
            UC Berkeley; I think I'm in the conservative half of this city. -.4.12, -4.92

            by jncca on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 05:04:16 PM PDT

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            •  Can you really be a nice person (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              sapelcovits, askew

              if you would intentionally deny people rights based on an attribute they can do nothing to change?  I'm sure there were some very nice slave owners, too.  My grandmother is nice but she's still an asshole because she's racist and thinks liberals should be hung from the nearest tree.  Still, a nice lady.

              My rhetoric was meant to be rhetorical.  ;)

              •  there are different types of anti-ssm people (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                nimh

                There's the garden variety bigots. Marilyn Musgrave or James Inhofe.  Those are terrible people.

                There's some who like LGBT people as individuals but don't support any recognition.  I'm more torn on these people as to whether they're assholes.  But I'd lean towards no because they don't have actual hatred in them.

                There's some who are uncomfortable with marriage but okay with civil unions.  These people are definitely not assholes.  After all, that was Obama's official position for his first term.

                20, CA-18 (home), CA-13 (school)
                politicohen.com
                Socially libertarian, moderate on foreign policy, immigration, and crime, liberal on everything else.
                UC Berkeley; I think I'm in the conservative half of this city. -.4.12, -4.92

                by jncca on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 05:46:06 PM PDT

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                •  look (0+ / 0-)

                  I'm begrudgingly willing to overlook homophobia if it would cost re-election (as it potentially could for Pryor or Landrieu). but being pro-gay marriage isn't going to lose you an election in Florida in 2018, it just isn't. if you can support discrimination especially for such a gratuitous reason and still be called a nice guy, then that label is cheap.

                  Living in Kyoto-06 (Japan), voting in RI-01, went to college in IL-01.

                  by sapelcovits on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 08:30:04 PM PDT

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                •  I'm sorry, but I have to disagree (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  wwmiv

                  on the second type of person you mentioned.  They may "like" gay people, but if they don't think they deserve equal rights, that still means they think gay people are beneath them.

                  After all, I'm sure not all slave owners hated their slaves.

          •  I'm gay (0+ / 0-)

            And I think it's ridiculous to say everyone who doesn't agree with my position on marriage equality is an asshole or what have you.

            I can disagree with them, I can vote against them, I can choose not to support them. That said, Sens. Mark Pryor and Mary Landrieu and others do a lot more to advance my civil rights in the US Senate where they do not support it than outside of it where they'd go if they did.

            Mary needs to win South Louisiana to win in 2014, and she won't if she pisses off a bunch of Catholics.

            I don't give a damn how any of the rest of the Democratic caucus feels about marriage equality, because you know what, the debate is about to be settled and we're about to win.

            What I care more about is health care, about education, about living wages, about consumer protection and about a Democratic majority. To get all that, if I have to support a bunch of people who don't support marriage equality and then turn around and wink, I sure as hell will.

            23, Male, LA-02, TX-08 (originally), SSP: sschmi4

            by Stephen Schmitz on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 07:32:26 PM PDT

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        •  Depends on the issue (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          The Dude 415

          When you are discriminating against an entire class of people because of your own lack of insight, compassion, or courage, that makes you an asshole.  Perhaps less so when we're talking about budgetary issues, gun control, etc.  Being on the receiving end of this discrimination, I may have a different perspective.  For me, this isn't just another liberal vs. conservative issue, it's about my dignity and being treated equally to others in society.

      •  Murkowski (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jncca

        already opened a can of worms. if she didn't want to go to the full nine yards, she shouldn't have given that statement about how she was "evolving." now that she's taken the first step, that evolution can't stop no matter how fast she mashes the B button.

        Living in Kyoto-06 (Japan), voting in RI-01, went to college in IL-01.

        by sapelcovits on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 04:33:26 PM PDT

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        •  recced for B button. (0+ / 0-)

          20, CA-18 (home), CA-13 (school)
          politicohen.com
          Socially libertarian, moderate on foreign policy, immigration, and crime, liberal on everything else.
          UC Berkeley; I think I'm in the conservative half of this city. -.4.12, -4.92

          by jncca on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 05:04:30 PM PDT

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    •  I honestly don't think it will be Donnelly (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      James Allen

      While I don't know if it was for political positioning purposes, I wouldn't be surprised if Donnelly is personally anti-gay, as he voted against the Matthew Shepard Act in 2009.

      And that's painful, as a gay Hoosier who lives in the very same town as Sen. Donnelly.

      25, Practical Progressive Democrat (-9.38, -8.51), Gay, IN-02 - Defeat Wacky Jackie for 2014!

      by HoosierD42 on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 11:11:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  He also voted against repealing DADT (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        James Allen

        (though he voted for the final Defense Appropriations bill with the DADT repeal amendment)

        He also voted to prevent the DoD from contravening DoMA, an amendment originally proposed by Steve King.

        25, Practical Progressive Democrat (-9.38, -8.51), Gay, IN-02 - Defeat Wacky Jackie for 2014!

        by HoosierD42 on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 11:17:54 PM PDT

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