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View Diary: Daily Kos Elections Live Digest: 4/2 (299 comments)

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  •  Motivations (0+ / 0-)

    I think Landrieu and Murkowski both secretly support equality but are reluctant to do so due to the electoral implications.  

    The most courageous ones (other than those who were supporters before it was cool) are Begich and Hagan, both of whom are up for re-election this cycle in red states.  By the time McCaskill and Tester are up, nobody will care anymore, although credit to them is due for showing support from red states (unlike some others).

    There are also others who obviously could care less either way and are just getting on the bandwagon (Carper, probably Casey).  Some in this same group may be concerned about their next election if they DON'T support equality (Kirk, possibly Casey).

    Some people are just assholes, regardless of their states.  Nelson is definitely an asshole, since he is not up until 2018 and represents a purple state.  Johnson is a likely asshole but may be worried about damaging his son's chances.  The others represent deeply red states, but we need to consider that Heitkamp, Manchin, Pryor, and Donnelly are just fucking assholes who wouldn't support equality from any state.

    •  Not everyone who disagrees with us on an issue (4+ / 0-)

      is an asshole.  Rhetoric like that is part of the problem.

      However, Murkowski's considerations aren't electoral.  By 2016, supporting SSM should be pretty neutral in libertarian-leaning Alaska and she has shown she can win without winning the GOP primary so she doesn't need to even necessarily worry about that.

      20, CA-18 (home), CA-13 (school)
      politicohen.com
      Socially libertarian, moderate on foreign policy, immigration, and crime, liberal on everything else.
      UC Berkeley; I think I'm in the conservative half of this city. -.4.12, -4.92

      by jncca on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 04:25:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  well, (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bpfish, askew, Chachy

        if "asshole" doesn't describe someone who supports discrimination against a class of people because of "personal preference," then maybe"selfish douchebag" does?

        Living in Kyoto-06 (Japan), voting in RI-01, went to college in IL-01.

        by sapelcovits on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 04:34:38 PM PDT

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        •  I get that it's personal for you (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          aamail6, nimh

          but there are many people who don't have progressive views on gay rights issues who are nice people.

          20, CA-18 (home), CA-13 (school)
          politicohen.com
          Socially libertarian, moderate on foreign policy, immigration, and crime, liberal on everything else.
          UC Berkeley; I think I'm in the conservative half of this city. -.4.12, -4.92

          by jncca on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 05:04:16 PM PDT

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          •  Can you really be a nice person (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            sapelcovits, askew

            if you would intentionally deny people rights based on an attribute they can do nothing to change?  I'm sure there were some very nice slave owners, too.  My grandmother is nice but she's still an asshole because she's racist and thinks liberals should be hung from the nearest tree.  Still, a nice lady.

            My rhetoric was meant to be rhetorical.  ;)

            •  there are different types of anti-ssm people (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              nimh

              There's the garden variety bigots. Marilyn Musgrave or James Inhofe.  Those are terrible people.

              There's some who like LGBT people as individuals but don't support any recognition.  I'm more torn on these people as to whether they're assholes.  But I'd lean towards no because they don't have actual hatred in them.

              There's some who are uncomfortable with marriage but okay with civil unions.  These people are definitely not assholes.  After all, that was Obama's official position for his first term.

              20, CA-18 (home), CA-13 (school)
              politicohen.com
              Socially libertarian, moderate on foreign policy, immigration, and crime, liberal on everything else.
              UC Berkeley; I think I'm in the conservative half of this city. -.4.12, -4.92

              by jncca on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 05:46:06 PM PDT

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              •  look (0+ / 0-)

                I'm begrudgingly willing to overlook homophobia if it would cost re-election (as it potentially could for Pryor or Landrieu). but being pro-gay marriage isn't going to lose you an election in Florida in 2018, it just isn't. if you can support discrimination especially for such a gratuitous reason and still be called a nice guy, then that label is cheap.

                Living in Kyoto-06 (Japan), voting in RI-01, went to college in IL-01.

                by sapelcovits on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 08:30:04 PM PDT

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              •  I'm sorry, but I have to disagree (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                wwmiv

                on the second type of person you mentioned.  They may "like" gay people, but if they don't think they deserve equal rights, that still means they think gay people are beneath them.

                After all, I'm sure not all slave owners hated their slaves.

        •  I'm gay (0+ / 0-)

          And I think it's ridiculous to say everyone who doesn't agree with my position on marriage equality is an asshole or what have you.

          I can disagree with them, I can vote against them, I can choose not to support them. That said, Sens. Mark Pryor and Mary Landrieu and others do a lot more to advance my civil rights in the US Senate where they do not support it than outside of it where they'd go if they did.

          Mary needs to win South Louisiana to win in 2014, and she won't if she pisses off a bunch of Catholics.

          I don't give a damn how any of the rest of the Democratic caucus feels about marriage equality, because you know what, the debate is about to be settled and we're about to win.

          What I care more about is health care, about education, about living wages, about consumer protection and about a Democratic majority. To get all that, if I have to support a bunch of people who don't support marriage equality and then turn around and wink, I sure as hell will.

          23, Male, LA-02, TX-08 (originally), SSP: sschmi4

          by Stephen Schmitz on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 07:32:26 PM PDT

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      •  Depends on the issue (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        The Dude 415

        When you are discriminating against an entire class of people because of your own lack of insight, compassion, or courage, that makes you an asshole.  Perhaps less so when we're talking about budgetary issues, gun control, etc.  Being on the receiving end of this discrimination, I may have a different perspective.  For me, this isn't just another liberal vs. conservative issue, it's about my dignity and being treated equally to others in society.

    •  Murkowski (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jncca

      already opened a can of worms. if she didn't want to go to the full nine yards, she shouldn't have given that statement about how she was "evolving." now that she's taken the first step, that evolution can't stop no matter how fast she mashes the B button.

      Living in Kyoto-06 (Japan), voting in RI-01, went to college in IL-01.

      by sapelcovits on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 04:33:26 PM PDT

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      •  recced for B button. (0+ / 0-)

        20, CA-18 (home), CA-13 (school)
        politicohen.com
        Socially libertarian, moderate on foreign policy, immigration, and crime, liberal on everything else.
        UC Berkeley; I think I'm in the conservative half of this city. -.4.12, -4.92

        by jncca on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 05:04:30 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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