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View Diary: David Stockman: “get out of the markets and hide out in cash” Corruption Of Capitalism (122 comments)

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  •  We're not broke (25+ / 0-)

    We just don't have a healthy and fair economy, thanks to people like Stockman with their come to Jesus deathbed conversions.

    "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

    by kovie on Sun Mar 31, 2013 at 09:42:41 PM PDT

    •  What conversion? 95% of that op-ed is Stockman (48+ / 0-)

      bashing Keynesianism, welfare programs, Social Security, Medicare. He mocks "green energy" (he even used the nice little ironic quotation marks).

      He bashes FDR and LBJ and blames them for the majority of today's problems.

      He wants us to return to the Gold Standard and Calvin Coolidge economics. Seriously... WTF???

      Yes he bashes some Republicans as well but he sounds more like a cross between Ron Paul, Peter Schiff, Alan Simpson and Alex Jones rather than a sound economist.

      Not to mention his continued fear mongering about the debt and an impending crash that'll make every thing worthless and that we are headed for the same result as Greece and Cyprus..

      What a horribly misinformed, contradictory,  and simply vile op-ed.

       

      •  Yep, stockman is all of these things. (16+ / 0-)

        He's also absolutely correct that Wall st. Is setting up for another massive bubble burst, and we have done NOTHING to prevent it, and NOTHING to protect our economy and our citizens from the coming maelstrom.

      •  heh...IOW (16+ / 0-)

        his op-ed was mostly un-thought-out gibberish.

        That was my take on it too.

        He was all over the place.  Does the man have a functioning brain?

        The answer certainly wasn't clear from his op-ed.

        Irony takes a worse beating from Republicans than Wile E. Coyote does from Acme. --Tara the Antisocial Social Worker

        by Youffraita on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 12:27:17 AM PDT

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      •  Sadly I have but one Recommend to give. n/t (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        auron renouille, TomP, Deep Texan, corvo

        You show a little grit and you lands in jail.

        by cal2010 on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 02:17:30 AM PDT

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      •  I'm starting to see that a lot here, lately :(. (17+ / 0-)

        Some diarists will latch onto any opinion if it criticizes the hated, evil military or the hated, evil corporations.  But, really?  Welfare state?  The false canard about how we're going broke?  Edging close to the fact-free currency hysteria of Ron Paul and Alex Jones?  Does this guy even understand why what happened to Greece and Cyprus can only happen to a nation without its own currency, that the risks we face are serious but fundamentally different?

        It's not enough to be against something - we've got to be for something, too.  So he becomes king for a day and axes military spending, hitting not just defense contractors but enlisted personnel who are not in the private sector job market today, throwing them back into the job market all while immediately closing the Fed's liquidity faucets?  All while cutting "welfare" benefits?  Those are exactly the sorts of mistakes that were made by Hoover when the original bubble burst and again by Congress when they started serving FDR shitty budgets in the late '30s.

        I'm glad that he's got no serious chance of getting close to the government.  He may be right about defense spending but even stopped clocks are right twice a day, and this guy is most assuredly a cognitive stopped clock.

        "The first drawback of anger is that it destroys your inner peace; the second is that it distorts your view of reality. If you come to understand that anger is really unhelpful, you can begin to distance yourself from anger." - The Dalai Lama

        by auron renouille on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 05:03:10 AM PDT

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        •  Yes we should embrace (7+ / 0-)

          the millitary industrial complex, spending 6 trillion dollars on war, undermining the New Deal to sustain it, maintaining the doubled Bush era "defense" spending no matter what it takes to keep it going, and adding billions upon billions of "Homeland Security" police state spending on top of that.

          We should not demonize those corps who are sitting on trillions in cash, keeping as much of it as possible offshore, not hiring, outsourcing jobs, and not paying taxes, receiving untold amounts of subsidies and still wanting a lower corporate tax rate.

          And the hardly regulated banks, we should never demonize them.

          It's those Chicken Little progressives that are the problem.


          "Justice is a commodity"

          by joanneleon on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 05:28:21 AM PDT

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          •  +1 (5+ / 0-)

            It's tiresome hearing all the time about how we're broke. No, we're not broke, we've just been robbed.  Nothing like having your leaders keep stealing from you while telling you its your own fault.

            That said, its long past time these fools admit Reagan's voodoo economics don't work.  The only thing keeping the patient animated is the influx of corporate cash into our electoral system.  

            It is an old strategy of tyrants to delude their victims into fighting their battles for them. FDR

            by Betty Pinson on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 06:11:47 AM PDT

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            •  Vodoo Economics Does Work ... (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Pluto, Klusterpuck

              ... for the 1%, that is.  How else do you think they have been able to more than double their share of the income pie while the rest of us get lectured to about how there is no money to pay the workers, pay for the schools or infrastructure?

              Poor man wants to be rich. Rich man wants to king. And the king ain't satisifed until he rules everything. B.Springsteen

              by howd on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 08:38:32 AM PDT

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          •  Joanne, the previous poster was ironically (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Pluto, joanneleon

            mentioning Greece in regard to its euro troubles, but you are more on target regarding Greece as well.

            Greece's major debt, to the tune of 150 billion, came from military spending, and most of that was vendor financed (i.e. the arms companies provided the financing). This is what sunk Greece, not its non-existent welfare system, and its smaller than average bureaucracy.

            There are two kinds of people in this world. The kind who divide the world into two kinds of people, and the kind who don't.

            by upstate NY on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 12:14:41 PM PDT

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        •  So true, Auron, so true. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Deep Texan, corvo, auron renouille

          The elevation of appearance over substance, of celebrity over character, of short term gains over lasting achievement displays a poverty of ambition. It distracts you from what's truly important. - Barack Obama

          by helfenburg on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 05:31:19 AM PDT

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      •  He is (5+ / 0-)

        a lot of the things that you say, but it sounds to me like you are too complacent about the state of the union. The one thing he is not wrong about is the dire nature of things. He's probably anticipating a correction to the artificially inflated markets and insolvent banks.  He's just nuts in the way he aims at things like Social Security, entirely stable and solvent and unlike any of the other things he aims at.

        But then again he could just be another Fix the Debt group asshole softening up  the country for some more shock doctrine austerity ahead.  


        "Justice is a commodity"

        by joanneleon on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 05:22:08 AM PDT

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        •  Sounds like you're saying the same sorts of things (5+ / 0-)

          re: these "fix the debt" people.  They're able to pitch what they're selling because it's difficult to deny that something is wrong right now.  No kidding; something is wrong.  But when he can't even correctly identify the problem - or even get in the same damn ballpark - his solutions shouldn't even be listened to, let alone entertained as serious.

          This guy is the paramedic who recognizes that the patient has a broken arm and as a consequence runs them over with the ambulance so that the rest of the patient's bones will also be broken.  Sure, it's... symmetrical, of a sense, but it's also absolutely fucking insane.  As is Stockman.

          "The first drawback of anger is that it destroys your inner peace; the second is that it distorts your view of reality. If you come to understand that anger is really unhelpful, you can begin to distance yourself from anger." - The Dalai Lama

          by auron renouille on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 05:30:51 AM PDT

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          •  I'm not listening (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Words In Action, corvo, Klusterpuck

            to any of his causes or solutions. I'm simply saying that talking about this as if it is a Chicken Little situation is profoundly foolish.  Whistling past the graveyard.


            "Justice is a commodity"

            by joanneleon on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 05:35:01 AM PDT

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          •  For instance (11+ / 0-)

            when he says that people are being robbed, that people who are saving money are being robbed every day by Bernanke's quantitative easing, he's right on that.  Artificially low interest rates, kept that way for long periods of time, simply robs anyone who saves money as the amount of interest you can get (almost nothing) is less than inflation.  That is simply the same as going in and grabbing bank deposits like Cyprus.  

            At the same time, money is given to the big banks for almost no interest.  They take it and gamble with it, extort huge relative amounts of interest in credit cards for instance, and even buy Treasuries with it. It's free money, every day.  Meanwhile the Fed also buys tens of billions in toxic assets and takes them off the balance sheets (or from their off balance sheet investments) of the TBTF banks.  

            There are certain things he is saying that are true, especially the part about robbing people who have saved money for all their lives.  Cyprus, American style.


            "Justice is a commodity"

            by joanneleon on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 05:40:14 AM PDT

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            •  With regards to the low interest rates.... (0+ / 0-)

              its actually a little disingenuous to say that the Fed is robbing people.  Private sector debt is coming down from 300% of GDP at the height of the bubble......and a great amount of that is household debt....meaning that the low interest rates are saving literally millions of people from bankruptcy and further misery.  
              Don't get me wrong......I would love to see the Feds offer a special Govt savings bond that regular people could buy (up to maybe $20,000 a year) that pays inflation plus 5%...this would allow people to save for their own retirement AND prevent the aristocracy from hoarding all that interest income....there are solutions....but you need to understand that there are always 2 sides to every ledger.

              MMT = Reality
              http://neweconomicperspectives.org/

              "The Earth is my country and Science my religion" Christiaan Huygens

              by Auburn Parks on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 02:42:25 PM PDT

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        •  Yes (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          PsychoSavannah, howd, jethrock
          But then again he could just be another Fix the Debt group asshole softening up  the country for some more shock doctrine austerity ahead.
          I agree that stock are probably overvalued, especially financials, and in any case are based on income inequality as banks sop up yet more money they didn't really earn, with money that wasn't really theirs. But his attacks on government spending is just Reagan all over again. When they're not being disingenuous crooks these people are imbecilic ideologues stuck in 1928. Is he for real about going back to the gold standard and massively cutting spending on welfare programs and entitlement programs? This guy's Andrew Mellon!
          “Liquidate labor, liquidate stocks, liquidate the farmers, liquidate real estate. It will purge the rottenness out of the system. High costs of living and high living will come down. People will work harder, live a more moral life. Values will be adjusted, and enterprising people will pick up the wrecks from less competent people.”
          He's just another obsessive-compulsive deficit scold who can't stand debt and thus isn't fit to give advice on economic matters. People like him are the economic equivalent of puritanical religious fundamentalists who rail against sex, pleasure and loud noise because it might lead to satanism. They're nuts, and they're the useful idiots exploited by the rich to sell their shock doctrine.

          There are two sorts of people whose advice you should always be wary of. Those who emerge out of nowhere when you suddenly come into lots of money, and those who emerge out of nowhere when you suddenly fall into hard times. They have ulterior motives in mind, and are not to be trusted.

          "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

          by kovie on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 06:39:14 AM PDT

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      •  Yes... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        corvo, semiot

        I read the article and all got was 'Government is EVIL, must be defunded and is the root of all our problems!'  Um, how do you think the 'wealthy' will fair over the middle class if there suddenly is a government 1/10 the size.  He sounds more like Paul Ryan rather than Bernie Saunders.

        'Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost' - Ronald Reagan, Communist

        by RichM on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 08:05:56 AM PDT

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    •  Unfortunately, the unhealthy, unfair economy (4+ / 0-)

      is created by supply-side economic policy, attitudes and behavior which are largely endorsed by our own pluto-Democrats.

      As I've said before, we could overwhelm the Republicans if their such a high pile of Democrats in the way.

      What's the point of letting neoliberals into the tent when neoliberalism is burning down the campground?

      by Words In Action on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 06:12:53 AM PDT

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    •  Distorting the market (0+ / 0-)

      I am always stunned to read financial advice from financial players (and their stooges).

      Sometimes it's "I know that all the metrics and indicators label this a poor risk, but you really ought to listen to me - not your lying eyes - and purchase this stock or commodity at any exorbitant price - and what a coincidence! I happen to have a huge quantity of it here in my pocket that I could make available to you."

      Now it seems to be "I like you can see that the clever move to garner profit and success for the future is to leap into the market and invest all we can beg, borrow, or steal - but, as RMN famously said in another context, it wouldn't be right. Therefore, like an 18th century freedom fighter, I urge you to get out of the markets and, just to make it easier for you, I am willing to take off your hands all those items that are encumbering you - with the understanding that the lower your price, the more patriots I will be able to assist. Oh, also, I advise you to stay the fuck out of my way as I clean up at firesale prices coordinate this courageous citizens' revolt."

      And most amazingly the geniuses who play those games fall for it, don't they?

      Too late for the simple life, too early for android love slaves - Savio

      by Clem Yeobright on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 06:27:29 AM PDT

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