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View Diary: Why $17 an Hour Should be the Minimum Wage (95 comments)

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  •  Your scenario (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lunachickie, NoMoreLies

    explains why countries have had buffers to blunt the effects of capitalism, such as the minimum wage and labor rights.

    The powerful control the 'markets' and do whatever they can to exploit others.

    We are becoming a fuedal system because of people like you, the fervently religious proponents of capitalism.

    The banks have a stranglehold on the political process. Mike Whitney

    by dfarrah on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 09:14:37 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Can you suggest a better economic (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      VClib, Sparhawk, erush1345

      system -- one that has proven to work better?  

      I'm a believer in regulated capitalism.  It's not perfect, but of course no economic system is.  It is, however, the best system that we have been able to devise.

      One of the facets of regulated capitalism is the minimum wage.  It ought to be set at a reasonable level, and a reasonable increase would not be problematic for business and hiring.  However, if you set it TOO far above what the market would pay, then given a choice, people won't hire unskilled workers.  They will (1) send those jobs overseas (since that makes overseas labor MUCH cheaper than U.S. labor); (2) automate wherever possible (since you've dramatically increased the economic incentive for doing so; and/or (3) hire fewer unskilled workers.  

      •  Capitalism with more regulations (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        NoMoreLies, ilex

        would be fucking spiffy!!!

        We now have capitalism with a lions' share of its' regulations stripped, which has in part allowed the conditions we currently see to flourish.

         

        It is time to #Occupy Media.

        by lunachickie on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 10:59:04 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You aren't going to... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          coffeetalk, VClib

          ...'regulate' employers away from installing machines in their businesses.

          (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
          Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

          by Sparhawk on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 12:42:58 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  And where did I say that? (0+ / 0-)

            Of course, I didn't.  But why let that get in the way of a good sidebar troll?

            It is time to #Occupy Media.

            by lunachickie on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 12:47:04 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  This is a discussion about the minimum wage (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              coffeetalk, VClib

              Automation is a critical thing to consider. You posted that you want more regulation, presumably to maintain or increase unskilled worker salaries. That strategy will have limited utility because any reforms to increase worker salaries (health care, sick time, whatever) is going to be met with increased attempts to automate away jobs.

              (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
              Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

              by Sparhawk on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 12:58:26 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  And of course, you presumed (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                NoMoreLies

                what others posted would be something that dovetails nicely with whatever neoliberal crap you feel like pushing today. (smacks forehead) What was I thinking?

                 

                increased attempts to automate away jobs
                Has it ever occurred to you that fixes to the tax code and banking regs might go a really long way? Of course not! That would interject reality into your opinions-masquerading-as-authoritative-talking-points.

                It is time to #Occupy Media.

                by lunachickie on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 01:39:21 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  How would tax fixes and banking regulations (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Sparhawk, nextstep, VClib

                  prevent people from replacing workers with automation?  

                  If workers become expensive enough, it makes sense to invest that money, instead, into automation.  There's generally a tipping point, when automation, with a higher front end investment but generally more reliability and accuracty and far cheaper operational costs, will be more financially advantageous than hiring workers.  

                  •  Of course, no one framed this discussion (0+ / 0-)

                    in this way. But you and your little friends just keep on flailing and vomiting up strawmen at every turn, ok? Maybe someday you'll get somewhere...

                    It is time to #Occupy Media.

                    by lunachickie on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 02:47:00 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

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