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View Diary: Discovery of His NRA Membership Instantly Ended Possibility of Me Hiring Independent Contractor (1257 comments)

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  •  That's discrimination also (7+ / 0-)

    You decided not to hire a contractor because he had a Jesus fish on his truck?

    So you openly discriminate against Christians.  I guess then that you would have no complaints over companies refusing to hire Muslims or someone in a turban, right?
    What if it was a Latino with a little statue of Jesus on the dash?  Fire them too?

    But here's the big question, why are you allowed to discriminate against people for their religion but companies aren't?  And what of you?  Would you accept being fired for NOT being a Christian and a Republican?  If it's fair for you to do it to someone else, it's fair for it to be done to you.

    Be careful what kind of society you advocate for, and what kind of society you build around you.  I don't think I want to hire you for anything either.

    Where we spend our money is in most ways the only power we have nowadays.
    And what will you say when corporations get SCOTUS to agree that Freedom of Association means they don't have to hire anyone but straight white male Christians?  There's no fundamental difference.
    •  Hiring a contractor personally (11+ / 0-)

      Is not a business hiring someone.

      When you have someone come into your home, it's a different story. That's personal.

      Women create the entire labor force. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sympathy is the strongest instinct in human nature. - Charles Darwin

      by splashy on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 11:47:05 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  What about a maid service or something? (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        gerrilea, Jersey Jon, ancblu, sviscusi

        Let's say I hire a maid service, and they send over a Latino woman.  Am I allowed to say "Hey, I don't want no illegals inside my home!" and send her back?  And what if everyone did that?

        What if an insurance agency hired a black man, and every time they sent him out to a client's house, the homeowners refused to let him in, because "they were afraid they would get shot"?

        How long would the maid service or insurance company be able to keep the Latina and black man on the payroll, if no one would work with them?

        What if the customers of a business demand that the business discriminate in their hiring?  What then?

        •  What ifs? (16+ / 0-)

          Good gravy, you are talking about RACE.  Not bumperstickers.  

          Like I tell my kids, stick to the original discussion.  

          "Love One Another" ~ George Harrison

          by Damnit Janet on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 12:12:05 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Splashy's comment said home is personal (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            gerrilea, Jersey Jon

            It's a valid point.  If a person's home is personal, and they have the right of who can come in and who can't then race is on the table as well.

            What would you say to a similar diary written by someone who said they wouldn't let the black cable repair guy into her home because she was scared he had a gun and would shoot her?

            I see do difference.  Do you?

            •  Easy difference (8+ / 0-)

              Being black is genetic, from birth.  A black person cannot decide  what race they are on any given day.  

              Putting an NRA sticker on a work truck is a choice.

              To be clear, if the black person put an NAACP sticker on their work car, or an Obama sticker, they should expect that some folks won't do business with them.  

              "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

              by Empty Vessel on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 12:33:06 PM PDT

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              •  This diary is all about fear (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Jersey Jon, fuzzyguy, ancblu

                Time to be consistent.  The diary said the contractor was sent away out of fear the man had a gun and was likely to shoot.

                A whole lot of people would say the exact same thing about a black man who shows up at their door in a lilly white neighborhood.

                So what you're saying is that it's perfectly resonable to react out of mindless fear, as long as the guy is the same race?

                •  sorry, ain't playing (8+ / 0-)
                  So what you're saying is that it's perfectly resonable to react out of mindless fear, as long as the guy is the same race?
                  Though it is a lovely dodge...I mean you totally nailed and addressed the difference between race and a bumper sticker.

                  "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

                  by Empty Vessel on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 12:39:08 PM PDT

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                  •  Discrimination is discrimination, deal with it (4+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Jersey Jon, fuzzyguy, guyeda, ancblu

                    I checked my company's HR hiring criteria.  Know what it says?  That discrimination based on race, sex, gender, sexual orientation, religion, AND political beliefs is forbidden.

                    This diary is about fear, and discrimination over political beliefs.  Just because you happen to agree with that discrimination doesn't make it untrue.

                    You agree with and accept discrimination, because it's not against you, it's against an "other".  Which gives you no right to complain when others do it.

                    We had to fire a contractor last year.  One of our engineers is a Scientologist.  Never advertised it to me, but the contractor found out and wouldn't shut up about it.  Kept putting up signs like "Free e-meter" next to some broken wires, and "Go pray to Zenu" or something.  We fired him, and would have done the same thing if he'd refused to shut up about Democrats or Republicans.

                    You support discrimination, that's on you.

                    •  Perfect (7+ / 0-)

                      thankyou, again

                      We had to fire a contractor last year.  One of our engineers is a Scientologist.  Never advertised it to me, but the contractor found out and wouldn't shut up about it.  Kept putting up signs like "Free e-meter" next to some broken wires, and "Go pray to Zenu" or something.  We fired him, and would have done the same thing if he'd refused to shut up about Democrats or Republicans.
                      This contractor put up a sign, espousing a political view--equivalent in every way with what the contractor did by putting the NRA sticker on his truck.

                      Here's the thing...I agree that you should have fired the contractor...because he couldn't keep his political views to himself.

                      Its not me that is being selective here--you are.

                      "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

                      by Empty Vessel on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 12:56:36 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  The message of the sign makes a huge difference (4+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        fuzzyguy, Sparhawk, guyeda, ancblu

                        Employees are allowed to wear crosses around their necks.  We're allowed to have a small religious display at our desks.  That's not prostlytizing.

                        The contractor wasn't fired for putting up a sign in support of his own religion.  He wasn't fired for advocating anything about himself.  He was fired for constantly tearing another employee down.

                        I'll give you a counter example.  If the contractor of this diary had an "I shoot liberals" sticker, or an "I shoot gun regulators" sticker, that would be a much different story.  If the diarist had said something like "I supprt gun regulation" to the contractor, and the contractor had replied with an "I hate those people" or similar comment, then fine.

                        But the diary says he was fired simply for an NRA sticker, with no other interaction.  Sorry but no, our contractor was not fired for anything close to that.  We dont' fire workers for wearing a cross and go running screaming "Ah, stop shoving God down my throat!"

                        Other than one little sticker, I don't see any evidence the contractor didn't keep his political views to himself.

                  •  And P.S., religion is a choice (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Jersey Jon, fuzzyguy, codairem

                    Yes, people are born into a religion normally, but people are allowed to change.  So since religion is a choice like political beliefs, and not genetic like race, then you would have no problem with Muslims being discriminated against for refusing to convert to Christianity, correct?

                    Or Jews, or anyone else who refuses to behave as you feel they should choose to?  Would you refuse to hire a contractor who had a Star of David on his car?  It's not race, just a bumber sticker.  Just a choice, so fair game to discriminate.

                    •  Only if the religious (3+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      splashy, Smoh, codairem

                      person kept proselytizing at work or putting up religious symbols on their office doors, company cars etc.

                      You seem to not understand the difference between having a political belief and expressing it on company time.

                      "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

                      by Empty Vessel on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 12:58:43 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

              •  But it is reasonable (0+ / 0-)

                to assume a black person is a Democrat.

                So if you oppose Democrats, are you not free to discriminate on that basis?

            •  Actually, if you hire an individual (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Smoh, TheFern

              To come into your home to clean, rather than hiring someone from an agency, you can discriminate all you want.

              See, that's how it works. Personal means you can make personal decisions.

              Besides, race does not imply danger, while guns do.

              Women create the entire labor force. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sympathy is the strongest instinct in human nature. - Charles Darwin

              by splashy on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 02:18:09 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  So you cannot refuse to allow (0+ / 0-)

                access to your home an employee of a company who has an NRA bumper sticker?

                I fail to see the logic in your argument.

                •  Interesting point (0+ / 0-)

                  It's the agency that is responsible, actually, for not discriminating.

                  Individually, I'm not really sure about the laws. But it would seem that in your home it would be different than out in public.

                  Women create the entire labor force. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sympathy is the strongest instinct in human nature. - Charles Darwin

                  by splashy on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 09:39:53 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

        •  Nice try. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          splashy, Smoh, TheFern

          But hiring an agency is not the same as hiring the individuals the agency uses.

          And being a racist yourself

          "Hey, I don't want no illegals inside my home!"
          is not the same as being choosy who you are willing to do business with.

          If I were to hire a maid service, and the maids stole stuff when they came over, I would not only fire them, but tell everyone I knew about it.

          But if I hired a maid service, and the people they sent over were brown, or ugly, or whatever (any generic racial descriptor) but did good work, they would be my problem.

          But hiring a maid service is completely different from hiring a contractor.   I would not contract with a mad service that had NRA signs in the window, because I would know that at least some of my money would eventually go to support evil.  The same goes for the obnoxious 'jesus fish' some businesses flaunt.

          If a business flaunts political signs, they are going to turn off some people.  That is their responsibility as business people.  You can't blame their potential customers for being turned off.

          I am not religious, and did NOT say I enjoyed sects.

          by trumpeter on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 01:08:00 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  You are comparing apples to lettuce (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Smoh, TheFern

          Completely different thing.

          Women create the entire labor force. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sympathy is the strongest instinct in human nature. - Charles Darwin

          by splashy on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 02:16:14 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  I refused to do business with a man (16+ / 0-)

      who made the decision to plaster Bush and Jesus fish stickers on his professional truck.  

      He has the freedom to advertise his personal and political associations then I have the freedom to say, "pass".  

      Hey it's not like I tried to run him off the road like some asshat with a gun rack did to me with my kids in the car because of the stickers on my personal car.

      I simply didn't want to do business with him.  The Jesus Fish symbol is all over the yellowbook ads.  They use it as a form of advertising.  

      "Love One Another" ~ George Harrison

      by Damnit Janet on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 12:05:09 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  To be avoided in any case (6+ / 0-)

        My personal rule of thumb is that the more Jesus-y a business is, the more likely it is they are crooks. If they are relying on personal affiliations to attract business that makes me think that their competence and honesty aren’t enough to do their advertising for them. Basically, it’s a diversionary tactic: “Look over here! I’m a Christian! Please don’t ask about my actual qualifications to do the work!”

        There is an outfit in my neighborhood called New Life Contracting, i.e.: ‘new life’ as in ‘born again’, that has left business cards at my house a few times. (Yes, my roof looked like hell for a while.) That card went straight in the garbage every time.

        Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx

        by Joe Bob on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 01:28:44 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Kinda laughing that you assume (8+ / 0-)

      I discriminate against people of faith.  Just ask the Iranian lady who cuts my hair.  Or the Sikh who sells my kids ice cream in his truck during the summer.

      I just see certain symbols as symbols of hate, intolerance and bigotry.  The W'04, Bush/Cheney followed with the Fishy idol persuaded me not to take up any more of this businessman's time.  

      I didn't "discriminate" I simply said, "no, thanks".

      "Love One Another" ~ George Harrison

      by Damnit Janet on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 12:10:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It's not discrimination (6+ / 0-)

      It is called voting with your dollars.

      It is discrimination to not shop at walmart because you disagree with their politics?

    •  interesting (0+ / 0-)

      I don't like christians, but I wouldn't fire a person over that. Unless the christian nut went ape then something would have to be done.

       

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