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View Diary: 'We're not bigots because Dems once opposed gay marriage too' (81 comments)

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  •  Matters of degree do matter (5+ / 0-)

    Barack Obama evolved, eventually. And so did America, in a black-swan tipping point sort of way.

    When will Republicans evolve? Who is keeping this issue alive as a debate among the Village?

    Economics is a social *science*. Can we base future economic decisions on math?

    by blue aardvark on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 01:29:40 PM PDT

    •  As sad and disgusting as it sounds, (6+ / 0-)

      I have to believe, based upon emperical evidence, that the rate of homosexual teen bully-assisted suicides, and the personalization thereof, has a LOT to do with our society's evolution on this topic.  Kids, hundreds of them, were/are dying because of bigotry and hatred.  This is a tragedy, and finally we, as a society, are poised to deal with it.

      It's disgusting that it took so much bloodshed and grief to accomplish this.  It really is.  But if their parents can take any solace whatsoever in the fact that their children are martyrs to this commenter's mind, then that must be worth something, cold and palliative as it may be.

      "Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level, and beat you with experience every time." --Unknown

      by Subwoofer of the House on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 01:43:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Religion certainly keeps it alive. Many Dems have (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      just come out in favor, he is right about that. His point isn't way off. If they are bigots now then Dems who couldn't support it were bigots then.

      That Portman didn't favor it until it was his son he was considering is no surprise. Dems just have an easy time seeing through others eyes or wanting fairness for not us as much as we do for us.

      But a big thing here is for those who are very into their religion/church and their church is all anti-gay. When everyone was against gay marriage until recently and not condemned for it do we now accuse people who believe their church of being bigots?
      The churches we can accuse but we might want to be slower to condemn with harsh words those who follow that church.
      I do not like religion. I left Catholic church and school as a preteen because their teaching on who gets into heaven was so limited and judgmental and I did not like their god.
      I think religion often acts more as a barrier to spirit than as a bridge. They make god into some little petty thing.

      But that's a separate issue. If their church preaches gays are sinners doomed to hell if they omg have sex... it makes sense that is the bias of believers. Believe what liberals have been saying recently and toss out the accepted teaching of your church or you are bigots!
      That doesn't make much sense
      Though I am not saying it well.

      •  I didn't see any Ds stoking the flames of bigotry (1+ / 0-)
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        with ballot measures declaring gays will burn in Hell.  That was Thug official policy in 2004 -bc they knew it would bring their base out to yell loudly how much they hate gays.

        The Catholic church's position is part 'more babies/more Catholics', part being trapped by their own web of bigotry and unable to just admit not all the bs over the last 2000 years was 'divinely inspired'...

        and part 'don't know how to admit that many priests are gay without being stoned by the flock.'

        But since it did it to itself, and still does, I have little sympathy for it.

      •  "Seeing through others eyes" and "wanting (0+ / 0-)

        fairness" are not generally included in definitions of "bigot", I think.

        We must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately. B. Franklin

        by Observerinvancouver on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 03:07:17 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  joynow, you said it very well (0+ / 0-)

        And you are a better human -- and clearly a better Christian, even if out of the Church (easy, since I'm not one at all) -- than I.
        And that's not snark.
        I really do respect and admire your forgiveness for people that, in some cases (depending on exactly what they've done, to whom, with what consequences, and with what intent) I would find unforgiveable.

        •  But wouldn't the church be the unforgivable part (0+ / 0-)

          compared to the followers. It's tough because if you believe a wrong or bigoted thing even for "good" reasons it is still wrong or bigoted

          Also...politicians play another game. They are not voting for christian reasons so I doubt their views or policies are based on religious beliefs either

          But if so many Dems who last year were not for gay marriage are forgivable now that they changed their mind it is a little soon to consider those who aren't there yet unforgivable

          republicans in congress as a whole are pretty much unforgivable but not just for any one issue. The country could be so much further ahead if they were making any attempt to find common ground. 2008 was a time of crisis and from the time we won they were just out to stop Dems and Obama...

          The disregard to those hurting... oh so many things they are horrible about.  Being against gay marriage hardly stands out as a bigger crime then the many groups and people they hurt by their words and policies.

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