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View Diary: Abbreviated Pundit Round-up: CT gun laws and other tales of change (224 comments)

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  •  Aren't the coming to work heavy anyway? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    commonmass, freerad, Larsstephens

    I mean, it's not like an act of law physically stopped anyone who was bound and determined to carry to the workplace from doing so.

    When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

    by Patrick Costighan on Thu Apr 04, 2013 at 05:28:07 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  But if you didn't want your employees to have guns (9+ / 0-)

      at work, and you found out one did, you had legal recourse to prevent it. Now, those wonderful "small government" Republicans are telling business owners what they can and can't allow on their private property. But they don't see that as a violation of anybody's rights. After all, rights begin and end with who has the bigger gun, right?

      •  Okay, so your employer SHOULD (10+ / 0-)

        be able to keep you from obtaining birth control, but SHOULDN'T be able to keep you from bringing a gun to work. Got it. Wait, WHAT?

      •  If you found one, then you're past prevention. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        commonmass

        Last I checked, laws permitting employees to carry to work didn't prevent business owners from making their own rules.  It just meant that I wouldn't be hauled before a judge for locking my piece in my car safe.

        When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

        by Patrick Costighan on Thu Apr 04, 2013 at 05:50:00 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  That's exactly what the TN law does (5+ / 0-)

          The employer cannot ban guns from their property. That in and of itself is a big deal. The language of the statute offers no protections for employers, other than that they will not be open to civil litigation if one of their employees goes postal and starts blowing people away when they have a bad day.

          And as far as being locked in your car safe, the statute doesn't require that. Just that the vehicle be locked and the gun not be "observable". So just throw a blanket over it and lock the door and you're fine.

          (A) Is kept from ordinary observation if the permit holder is
          in the motor vehicle; or
          (B) Is kept from ordinary observation and locked within the
          trunk, glove box, or interior of the person’s privately owned motor
          vehicle or a container securely affixed to such vehicle if the permit
          holder is not in the vehicle.
    •  I live in Georgia (7+ / 0-)

      I am certain people are carrying everywhere they go.

      laws do not stop people from doing things.

      Laws provide a mechanism to deal out pain and consequences for a described "crime".

      Clearly people kill others knowing the law frowns upon it.

      Laws just make it so we can arrest and punish people AFTER they commit a crime.

      •  When the 10 bullet max in your clip law (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        avsp, commonmass, SueDe, Miggles

        is signed into effect, I assume a LOT of guntoters will violate the law.

        How cops intend to enforce such a thing is a mystery to me.

        In a sane world they'd put more effort into enforcing gun laws that chasing pot smokers, but these are the country's priorities: marijuana is still considered more dangerous than a gun.

        That is the reality all day today.

        BTW: still ZERO deaths from pot.

        Just sayin'

        •  The clip stuff is mainly for the spree killers. (6+ / 0-)

          Guys who load up at the local gun store and then try to get even with society.

          The hard-core gun people are probably still going to have this stuff, they just won't be able to wave it around as much, which is maybe why they're pissed.

          "Michael Moore, who was filming a movie about corporate welfare called 'Capitalism: A Love Story,' sought and received incentives."

          by Bush Bites on Thu Apr 04, 2013 at 05:50:40 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I don't intend to abide by any such legislation. (0+ / 0-)

          And the beautiful thing about magazines; they're small and easy to hide from prying eyes.

          I think we're finally coming around on pot; I'd hate to see one insane measure of prohibition replaced by another.

          When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

          by Patrick Costighan on Thu Apr 04, 2013 at 05:54:32 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Case in point and "that didn't take long" (5+ / 0-)
            When the 10 bullet max in your clip law (3+ / 0-)
            is signed into effect, I assume a LOT of guntoters will violate the law.
            •  Fortunately, we'll never have to find out. (0+ / 0-)

              Except for those unfortunate enough to live in restrictive states.

              When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

              by Patrick Costighan on Thu Apr 04, 2013 at 06:36:12 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Your assumption that (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Beetwasher, Glen The Plumber

                people in restrictive states will suffer because not everyone can carry a gun to the grocery store fails on several levels.
                The states with the least restrictive gun laws have the most gun violence.

                The data analyzed in this report relate to the following 10 indicators of gun violence:
                 1.Overall firearm deaths in 2010
                 2.Overall firearm deaths from 2001 through 2010
                 3.Firearm homicides in 2010
                 4.Firearm suicides in 2010
                 5.Firearm homicides among women from 2001 through 2010
                 6.Firearm deaths among children ages 0 to 17, from 2001 through 2010
                 7.Law-enforcement agents feloniously killed with a firearm from 2002 through 2011
                 8.Aggravated assaults with a firearm in 2011
                 9.Crime-gun export rates in 2009
                 10.Percentage of crime guns with a short “time to crime” in 2009
                http://www.americanprogress.org/...

                “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

                by skohayes on Thu Apr 04, 2013 at 07:15:55 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  That's not true. (0+ / 0-)

                  California had 400 more gun murders than Texas in 2010.  Connecticut had three times as many as West Virginia and almost 50 times as many as Vermont.

                  When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

                  by Patrick Costighan on Thu Apr 04, 2013 at 07:18:37 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Meaningless twaddle (6+ / 0-)

                    This report goes far beyond murders and actually compares statistics (for example, the population in W Va is much lower than Connecticut but still has a higher murder by firearm rate than CT).

                    “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

                    by skohayes on Thu Apr 04, 2013 at 07:37:59 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  And? (0+ / 0-)

                      What does the rate matter?  A life is a life, and CT lost three times as many as WV to gun violence.

                      When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

                      by Patrick Costighan on Thu Apr 04, 2013 at 07:49:12 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Holy moly (4+ / 1-)

                        You really are a stupid man.  Even though that was my impression, you just kept commenting long enough to prove it.  So thanks much for that.

                        Your flag decal won't get you into heaven anymore. John Prine -8.00,-5.79

                        by Miss Blue on Thu Apr 04, 2013 at 07:51:52 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Sticks and stones. (0+ / 0-)

                          But seriously, what does the rate matter?  You can't use it to calculate risk.

                          When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

                          by Patrick Costighan on Thu Apr 04, 2013 at 07:56:03 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Risks ARE rates (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Glen The Plumber, Miss Blue

                            City A has 1,000 people who die of disease X.
                            City B has 2,000 people who die of disease X.

                            You can say that City B has twice as many deaths, but that's not the same thing at all as saying that "People in City B have a greater risk of dying from disease X."

                            We don't want our country back, we want our country FORWARD. --Eclectablog

                            by Samer on Thu Apr 04, 2013 at 08:45:20 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  How does this connect to gun violence? (0+ / 0-)

                            Gun violence isn't pathology; it doesn't strike randomly.  It is the sum of willful, criminal acts.  

                            When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

                            by Patrick Costighan on Thu Apr 04, 2013 at 08:48:55 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Since you need the dots connected . . . (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Glen The Plumber, skohayes, Miss Blue

                            Risk is probability applied to undesirable outcomes. It's a simple mathematical formula that doesn't care about etiology or volition.

                            City A has 50 people die from guns.
                            City B has 100 people die from guns.

                            City B, clearly, has twice as many people die from guns.

                            But that is not the same thing as saying "People in City B have twice the risk of dying from guns."

                            For example, if City B has ten times as many people as City A, then, proportionally, the risk of someone in City B dying as the result of a gun is five times lower. If City A has ten times as many people as City B, then the risk of gun death in City B is twenty times higher.

                            We don't want our country back, we want our country FORWARD. --Eclectablog

                            by Samer on Thu Apr 04, 2013 at 09:06:12 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Correct definition of risk (0+ / 0-)

                            Wrong application, though.  Mortality rates apply to similar events involving similarly situated actors.   It does not make sense, for example, to divide the number of HIV-related deaths by total population in a given year; you divide by the number of HIV victims to determine the mortality rate due to said infection.

                            When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

                            by Patrick Costighan on Thu Apr 04, 2013 at 09:25:44 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You're changing the goalposts (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Glen The Plumber, skohayes, Miss Blue

                            I'm not talking about mortality rate, which has a very specific definition, and is irrelevant to the point at hand.

                            So please explain to me why you can't draw the conclusion that based on the following data, it is unreasonable to conclude "A person (i.e., a randomly-selected individual) in Wyoming is more likely to die as the result of a gun than a person in Connecticut."

                            CT: 1,755 gun deaths from 2001 to 2010, 5.0 deaths/100,000 people/year
                            WY: 818 gun deaths, 15.6 deaths/100,000 people/year

                            We don't want our country back, we want our country FORWARD. --Eclectablog

                            by Samer on Thu Apr 04, 2013 at 10:19:35 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

          •  YARGO - oops (0+ / 0-)

            not anymore!

            Otherwise known as the "You can't make me!" crowd.

            "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

            by LilithGardener on Thu Apr 04, 2013 at 07:13:04 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  It's more to add additional penalties for people (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          One Opinion

          that go on shooting sprees (assuming they are arrested and don't turn the gun around when the cops show up). Just like any other law, the cops can't enforce it unless you get caught. There are tons of people shooting heroin right now too even though its dangerous and banned, but the cops can't do anything unless they catch you buying, selling, possessing, or using it.

      •  Of course (0+ / 0-)

        You can pat yourself on the back for dealing out pain and consequences for the ne'er-do-ill while the monsters laugh all the way to hell.

        When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

        by Patrick Costighan on Thu Apr 04, 2013 at 05:51:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Thank you GA, for sending John Lewis to Congress (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Larsstephens

        From time to time I like to thank Kossacks from Georgia for sending us John Lewis. He is such a gem of a man.

        If any of you didn't see his speech at the DNC last summer, please take a look. When we get discouraged about the current state of our country, this speech can remind us that we can do better, and will do better if we don't give up.

        "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

        by LilithGardener on Thu Apr 04, 2013 at 07:53:37 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  So what's the logic here? Since some people (0+ / 0-)

      might break laws, so we shouldn't those laws in the first place???

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