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View Diary: Hannity, Malkin, defend ex-Rutgers coach's abuse (172 comments)

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  •  It's Never The Right Thing To Hit A Child (1+ / 0-)
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    Sir Roderick

    Their behavior is all learned from you.

    If you hit your child to discipline them, they learn that hitting people is the way to get them to do what you want.

    That is what is learned.

    They learn pavlovian responses to avoid pain.

    They learn that love=pain.

    They do not learn the reasons WHY what they did was wrong, even if you tell them. The pain and humiliation from the spanking or whatever completely obfuscates the supposed justification for it. They remember the pain and humiliation as the lesson, they learn cognitive dissonance.

    How can they learn that violence is not the solution to problems when mommy and daddy, who supposedly love them used violence to mitigate their behavior?

    They will likely themselves use violence to mitigate other people's behavior.

    This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

    by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 04, 2013 at 11:37:31 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  This does not always happen. (4+ / 0-)
      If you hit your child to discipline them, they learn that hitting people is the way to get them to do what you want.
      Other things that aren't good ways to get people to do what you want:  giving them orders, taking things out of their hands, denying them privileges, putting them on leashes ... the list goes on.

      Here's the thing:  there is almost nothing in a good parent-child relationship, especially with a very small child, that makes a good model for any other sort of relationship.  A parent has to be able to impose his or her will on a child, because the child is the parent's responsibility until old enough to be autonomous.  Acting like somebody's parent -- again, especially like a small child's parent -- is never a good way to treat other people.  That doesn't make it a bad way to treat your kid.

      Hitting older children to discipline them is generally a bad idea, for a lot of the reasons you mention; once you're old enough to make decisions based on anything but pavlovian responses, you should be given better reasons than this-hurts-keep-away.  But there's also this:

      They do not learn the reasons WHY what they did was wrong, even if you tell them. The pain and humiliation from the spanking or whatever completely obfuscates the supposed justification for it.
      While this absolutely can happen, it doesn't always -- and to the extent that it happens, it can happen with any kind of discipline.  If the parent emphasizes the punishment instead of the problem with the behavior, the child learns nothing but "This behavior is wrong because I said so" and that the crucial thing is obedience.  That's a bad lesson even when it isn't inculcated by physical pain.

      Disciplining kids without terrorizing them is a difficult line to walk.  Eschewing physical punishment of any sort definitely makes it easier not to cross that line -- but it doesn't guarantee it.  And using physical punishment doesn't guarantee that you will.

      •  There Are No Absolutes, And No One Said It's Easy (0+ / 0-)

        It's not. But physically disciplining any child of any age is wrong morally (IMO) and it's not effective.

        The confusion, the humiliation, the pain will obfuscate and "rational" lessons you were hoping they'd learn and the scars can lead to much dysfunction and cognitive dissonance.

        This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

        by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 04, 2013 at 01:05:50 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You are correct: there are no absolutes. (1+ / 0-)
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          Wood Dragon

          Including the things you keep saying are absolutes.

          I respect your conviction that striking a child is never justified, but I do not share it.

          •  Umm, I Never Said They Were Absolutes, They Are (0+ / 0-)

            Obviously my opinions and I do believe that striking a child is never justified. That is not an absolute, it is my, subjective opinion. Obviously people disagree.

            This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

            by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 04, 2013 at 01:18:44 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  From experience (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Beetwasher, Cassandra Waites

      I can tell you that my beatings by my mother and my subsequent rage are the two main factors in my decision never to have a child.  I'm not sure a child so young can determine between spankings derived from anger and spankings derived from worry and lesson teaching.  If they stop the behavior it is more out of fear from being struck than fear of being hurt by their own actions.

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