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View Diary: THREE times as many Science degrees as there are Science jobs! (298 comments)

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  •  I know many geologists who work in (17+ / 0-)

    water resources, watershed protection, and groundwater remediation as well.  But the big money jobs are in energy.

    Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!

    by bigtimecynic on Fri Apr 05, 2013 at 08:00:32 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Depends on your definition of "big money" (12+ / 0-)

      While petroleum geologists and petroleum engineers have almost always topped out the salary ranges for earth science professionals, you can make a good, consistent middle to upper middle class salary as a consulting geologist. Petroleum has always been a cyclical business. When it's booming, you can make a lot of money. When it's not, you can have a hard time finding a job.

      I'm a consulting hydrogeologist, and have been for 30 years of continuous employment. We hired an entry level hydrogeologist in our local office earlier this year at about $55K (with master's). I make a bit over $140K and some of the geologists I know who have moved more into management make up to (and some are over) $200K per year. That may not be "big money" to some, but it's capable of funding a very comfortable living for anyone who knows how to manage their money.

      Frankly, I'm concerned that these kinds of generalizations, which are really based more on IT professionals and to a lesser extent on Ph.D.-level research positions, will discourage people from going into fields such as hydrogeology, chemical engineering, or civil engineering. There is a lot of work that needs to be done in both resource management as well as built infrastructure in the future, and we need good, qualified, and well-trained workers in these fields to do it.

      This diarist has repeatedly tried to blur the distinction between IT, research,  and applied sciences in an effort to whip up opposition to immigrant workers, which overwhelmingly affect the IT field. I'm not sure exactly what his or her agenda is, but I disagree that the situation is as uniform in the sciences as implied by these diaries.  

      •  The diarist did not create the term STEM (7+ / 0-)

        Science, Technology, Mathematics, Engineering

        The evidence is in. All STEM careers are at risk.

        •  You keep saying that (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          FG, cryonaut, Agathena

          It's your standard line: "The evidence is in"

          There's a "secret."

          I've seen you repeat it in multiple diaries.

          What you are doing is implying that a phenomenon primarily affecting IT workers, and to a lesser extent Ph.D. researchers, affects, to a significant extent, to all science and engineering professions.

          That is a false implication. And that fact that you evidently fail to acknowledge that makes me think you've got an agenda here that goes beyond simple hand-wringing about outsourcing "STEM" jobs. Coupling that with your frankly odd attacks on another commentator that he or she is an "evil immigration attorney" is, I think, illustrative.

          There's more going on with these diaries than you've disclosed.  

            •  Can't say and didn't say (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Agathena

              But your unwillingness to acknowledge clear differences in different scientific fields and your hostility against at least one particular commentator suggests that there's something going on beyond your superficial concern about STEM workers.

              I think I've wasted enough time with you.  You've not exhibited a very open mind to understand that what affects one scientific field does not necessarily affect others. If you want to slap that broad brush around, feel free.  I've got work to do.

      •  The diarist ... (0+ / 0-)

        is also not really being honest about IT. If you look at his statistics, they seem to say that even during the recession, 8/9 of the graduates with a computer science degree were offered a job in the IT industry (although quite a few found a better job working in some other area). I would count this as a great success. Do 8/9 of the law school graduates in this country even pass the bar exam, let alone get a job offer working as a lawyer? I can guarantee that CS graduates with decent grades from good schools are finding jobs.

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