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View Diary: One Simple Rule On Social Security Cuts (27 comments)

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  •  If CCPI is good for Social Security, (5+ / 0-)

    then you have to conclude that Republicans support Social Security. Because they are the ones who have been proposing CCPI for years, but not because they like Social Security.

    Or, CCPI is bad for Social Security but it is a necessary evil in order to win Republican support for something else.

    Cannot be both.

    •  yeah I wouldn't actually argue either of those. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      We Won, Catte Nappe

      my stance is:  it's a bluff, but not really.

      if a group of people have done a thing every chance you've given them to do it (in this case, the republicans, and complete obstruction of any bill or budget the president proposes), they're almost certainly going to do that thing again.

      so the president could promise them the moon, it would amount to the same.

      you've seen me make this argument before, and I stand by it.  it COULD be that the shelf life on this has expired, see the sequester.  but it worked like a charm every time before that.

      but ok, thanks for explaining the diary.

      This comment is dedicated to my mellow Adept2U and his Uncle Marcus

      by mallyroyal on Fri Apr 05, 2013 at 11:33:10 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It seems to me (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        maracucho, SpecialKinFlag, JesseCW

        that this argument still doesn't make any sense. The idea, it is argued, is that President Obama proposes the unacceptable to accomplish...stasis. That presupposes that the thing Republicans don't like, tax increases, comes with the things they do like, Social Security cuts.

        Now, on the sequester, for some reason the White House thought that Republicans would not like $1 trillion in across the board spending cuts. Astonishing, but true. But would they happily trade them for $1 trillion in entitlement cuts? Sure! The worse those programs perform, the easier they are to dismantle. Such is the long term project of dismantling the New Deal...first starve the beast, then feed it poison.

        But back to the central argument: Republicans will never accept tax increases, therefore this is just a ruse to accomplish stasisl. Well, you could get the same results by proposing a program purely consisting of tax increases. If stasis is the goal, then you could also get that by proposing nothing.

        So the question is, why is THIS the preferred route? Unless there is some other goal other than stasis, which then causes the 11th dimensional argument to fall apart.

        •  Playing to the audience (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          BlueEyed In NC

          If it is kabuki, it's not meant to influence the GOP 'critters, it is meant for the regular folks outside the beltway.  Proposing purely tax increases would not fly with the audience. Bending over backwards, including offering something that is clearly painful for you to offer, and still getting rebuffed by the obstructionists..that's a different story.

          "No one life is more important than another. No one voice is more valid than another. Each life is a treasure. Each voice deserves to be heard." Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse & Onomastic

          by Catte Nappe on Fri Apr 05, 2013 at 12:56:26 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  The folks outside the beltway, who almost (0+ / 0-)

            universally oppose this policy.

            Yeah.  That makes sense.

            income gains to the top 1% from 2009 to 2011 were 121% of all income increases. How did that happen? Incomes to the bottom 99% fell by 0.4%

            by JesseCW on Fri Apr 05, 2013 at 02:49:19 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Our fellow citizens are conflicted (0+ / 0-)

              And ill informed.

              Judging from my reading of those I see daily, my local news sources, etc; this is the situation.

              It is true that we don't want anyone messing with our SS.
              It is also true that SS is in trouble, and "Something Must Be Done" quickly, before it goes broke.
              We don't have the foggiest clue what chained CPI is but smart people have suggested it can solve the problem without causing as much pain as we would certainly face if SS went broke.
              We all have to sacrifice a little something, also, too.

              "No one life is more important than another. No one voice is more valid than another. Each life is a treasure. Each voice deserves to be heard." Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse & Onomastic

              by Catte Nappe on Fri Apr 05, 2013 at 03:00:08 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  The polls are clear. People overwhelmingly favor (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                BlueEyed In NC

                increased withholding to "fix SS" rather than benefit cuts.

                We did our job.  Chained CPI is toxic and polls posted on the front page here over the last week have made it clear that voters reject it.

                The voters aren't confused.  The politicians just no longer give a flying fuck what the voters do or do not support.

                income gains to the top 1% from 2009 to 2011 were 121% of all income increases. How did that happen? Incomes to the bottom 99% fell by 0.4%

                by JesseCW on Fri Apr 05, 2013 at 04:21:30 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Excuse me. I know what chained CPI is and I know (0+ / 0-)

                that if something is wrong with SS they can fix it if we show them where their political will is and the rest is baloney.

                The elevation of appearance over substance, of celebrity over character, of short term gains over lasting achievement displays a poverty of ambition. It distracts you from what's truly important. - Barack Obama

                by helfenburg on Mon Apr 08, 2013 at 10:18:41 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I'm sure *you* do (0+ / 0-)

                  You are reading and commenting on a political blog, where the subject has received substantial attention. No doubt you have lots of information and opinions.

                  My comment referred to the vast number of people who do not read policitcal blogs. An enormous number of them don't even read the newspaper or watch news on TV with regularity. They get their information from watercooler chatter, maybe a news break on a favorite radio station, or the 20 seconds a topic gets attention before the morning traffic/weather break on local TV.

                  "No one life is more important than another. No one voice is more valid than another. Each life is a treasure. Each voice deserves to be heard." Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse & Onomastic

                  by Catte Nappe on Mon Apr 08, 2013 at 11:02:47 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

          •  I find that to be (0+ / 0-)

            an nonsensical argument.  

            People all across the country oppose cutting Social Security and Medicare.  They are not analyzing what Obama's strategy and chess moves with the Republicans are.  They've no idea about all the political moves nor do they care.  


            "Justice is a commodity"

            by joanneleon on Fri Apr 05, 2013 at 02:52:13 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  People all across the country are also convinced (0+ / 0-)

              Social Security is about to go broke, and something must be done without delay. And they don't have a clue what chained CPI is, let alone whether it is a cut.

              Of course they aren't analyzing the political moves. But the politicians and pundits (and bloggers) are. And as it stands now what they are seeing, or about to see, is:
              Obama is willing to do something to prevent SS from going broke. Only the wild eyed socialist leftists object to his suggestion to "tweaK" the calculations a little bit. And it seems the Republicans are too stubborn about no new taxes to do this sensible thing to save SS.

              Now, we can rant about it on a blog and insult one another. Or we can be doing something to better inform our presently ill informed fellow citizens.

              "No one life is more important than another. No one voice is more valid than another. Each life is a treasure. Each voice deserves to be heard." Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse & Onomastic

              by Catte Nappe on Fri Apr 05, 2013 at 03:05:06 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I haven't seen polling that proves this: (0+ / 0-)
                Social Security is about to go broke, and something must be done without delay. And they don't have a clue what chained CPI is, let alone whether it is a cut.
                Actually no, the public is not convinced Social Security is about to go broke or that something must be done without delay.
                •  My "poll" comes from break room chatter (0+ / 0-)

                  The "common wisdon", what "everybody" knows.  They have been hearing stuff like this:

                  Question: I hear that Social Security is in financial trouble? Why?
                  Answer: It is true that Social Security benefits are experiencing financing problems, and while this will not affect today's retirees and near-retirees, the problems are very serious. People live longer, the first baby boomers are five years from retirement, and the birth rate is low.
                  This results in a large drop in the worker-to-beneficiary ratio. For example, in 1950 the worker-to-beneficiary ratio was 16-to-one. Currently the ratio is 3.3-to-one, and within 40 years it will be 2-to-1.

                  At this rate of decline there will not be enough workers to pay scheduled benefits at current tax rates.

                  http://seniorliving.about.com/...

                  And this

                  Retiring baby boomers are cashing out on their decades of paying into Social Security. The problem? Social Security is no longer running a surplus, worrying many that the entitlement program is in trouble.

                  In 2036, the Social Security Administration reports that it will no longer have enough money to fully pay out scheduled benefits.

                  http://www.cnn.com/...

                  But if you like polls, here's one
                  http://www.pollingreport.com/...
                  "Do you favor or oppose reducing the cost-of-living adjustment that automatically increases the amount of benefits Social Security pays out to help the program remain financially secure?"  64% favor
                  "Do you think a major overhaul of Social Security is or is not necessary to substantially reduce the deficit?"
                  51% think it's necessary

                  Of course there are plenty of current polls saying "don't cut SS", but this is part of the same equation that leads to "keep the government out of our Medicare".  As noted in a prior comment - people are conflicted. It's not rational, but it is what it is.

                  As with so many issues of both policy and politics there is often a blind spot here. A belief that surely what is clearly understood and obvious to us must be just as clearly understood and obvious to everybody else, unless they are too stupid or brainwashed to bother with. We need to get out of our own information silo more often, and do a much, much better job sharing alternate viewpoints with the non-politcal junkies we are surrounded by.

                  "No one life is more important than another. No one voice is more valid than another. Each life is a treasure. Each voice deserves to be heard." Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse & Onomastic

                  by Catte Nappe on Sun Apr 07, 2013 at 01:44:22 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  LOL! (0+ / 0-)

                Now there's Catte Nappe showing some true colors.  LOL!

                Obama is willing to do something to prevent SS from going broke. Only the wild eyed socialist leftists object to his suggestion to "tweaK" the calculations a little bit.
                I feel kind of sorry for you.  You don't even have any idea how wrong you are.


                "Justice is a commodity"

                by joanneleon on Fri Apr 05, 2013 at 08:23:40 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  How like you to misread what I said (0+ / 0-)

                  I describe what is being explained by the media, and understood by the casual occasional news consumer.  It does not describe my understanding, but I am here among those closely following the policy and the politcs. Most folks don't.

                  "No one life is more important than another. No one voice is more valid than another. Each life is a treasure. Each voice deserves to be heard." Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse & Onomastic

                  by Catte Nappe on Sun Apr 07, 2013 at 11:33:15 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

      •  Mallyroyal, I think you are on to something (0+ / 0-)
      •  Are you all listening to the media? I'm hearing (0+ / 0-)

        Senate Repubs and Congresspersons making lots of happy noises.  They like it.  Enough of them will join with turncoat chicken Dems to pass it.

        Dems in Congress are all we have now - write your senators and congresspersons now and keep it going.  The people stopped Bush from privatizing when he wanted to do that in 2005.  Remember all the political capital he was going to spend on privatizing Social Security?  Well, with a similar uproar, we can stop this.

        The elevation of appearance over substance, of celebrity over character, of short term gains over lasting achievement displays a poverty of ambition. It distracts you from what's truly important. - Barack Obama

        by helfenburg on Mon Apr 08, 2013 at 10:17:32 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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