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View Diary: Abbreviated Pundit Round-up: It's not just going away edition (113 comments)

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  •  Real question: How do we enforce our current (4+ / 0-)

    laws, or any laws to come?

    Not as hard with big scary looking weapons, but handguns are easily concealed, and police can't just stop anybody they think looks "wrong" and shake them down for guns.

    LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

    by dinotrac on Sun Apr 07, 2013 at 05:36:28 AM PDT

    •  One simple result: (12+ / 0-)

      Get rid of the republicans in the House. Whatever one may say about the Democrats, they don't have an ideological problem with funding the government's day-to-day operations without a quid pro quo for themselves.

      "Violence never requires translation, but it often causes deafness." - Bareesh the Hutt.

      by Australian2 on Sun Apr 07, 2013 at 05:44:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Which I keep hearing can't happen for at least (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DSPS owl, pelagicray, quill, Klusterpuck

        10 years, AFTER the next round of gerrymanders...

        How many economic and environmental problems do we really, responsibly think we can put off that long?

        And, let's face it, even then it's extremely doubtful change will come apace or even more than incrementally better...

        I mean, it's not like electoral politics actually changes the ownership of government.

        What's the point of letting neoliberals into the tent when neoliberalism is burning down the campground?

        by Words In Action on Sun Apr 07, 2013 at 06:06:43 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Which has absolutely nothing to do with the (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        tb mare

        question I asked.

        LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

        by dinotrac on Sun Apr 07, 2013 at 08:46:21 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You asked how to ensure that standing (0+ / 0-)

          law is enforced.

          My response was: elect Democrats, who will fund the enforcement of laws as they stand rather than holding the operations of the government hostage to their ideology.

          Because I can tell you this: so long as the Republicans have a say over budgetary matters, there's no way that gun registration laws (even the current ones, with all their loopholes) will be properly enforced. The GOP will make sure that enforcement agencies don't have the resources to do their jobs.

          "Violence never requires translation, but it often causes deafness." - Bareesh the Hutt.

          by Australian2 on Sun Apr 07, 2013 at 01:21:07 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Oh c'mon.. you put people in jail for gun-related (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Bailey2001, high uintas, viral, ban nock

      crimes.  It's pretty simple.  Enforce the laws.

      On the federal level, they simply don't bother prosecuting crimes.
      Chicago, Los Angeles, and NYC prosecuted the fewest federal gun crimes in 2012

      The districts that contain Chicago, Los Angeles and New York City ranked last in terms of federal gun law enforcement in 2012, according to a new report from Syracuse University’s Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse, which tracks federal data.
      And that may well be that in those districts, local LE takes the lead.  But they just aren't stepping up.  (And, yes, I know LaPierre has used this report as a talking point - that doesn't make it invalid.)

      At the local level:Chicago’s Criminals Are Getting Away With Murder

      Only 132 of the 507 murder cases in [Chicago] last year were closed last year. That makes for a homicide clearance rate of 26 percent—the lowest in two decades, according to internal police records provided to Chicago. (The true picture is even worse; more on that later.) To put it another way: About three-quarters of the people who killed someone in Chicago in 2012 have gotten away with murder—so far, at least. “Those stats suggest a crisis,” says Arthur Lurigio, a criminologist at Loyola University Chicago.
      Given the record low clearance rate last year, more than 30 police sources, including current and former top commanders and 15 detectives, agreed to talk about the problem. These interviews—combined with the internal police data provided to Chicago—reveal a detective force that is undermanned and overextended, struggling against reluctant prosecutors and a notorious no-snitch code.
      Prosecutors fail to even put people away awaiting trial for gun crimes.. here in Chicago, they are often allowed to walk on recognizance or for minimal bail until trial - in other words, put them back on the street to shoot again.
      •  Chicago (up until the Supremes knocked it down) (0+ / 0-)

        had one of the toughest gun laws in the country. You couldn't legally own handguns in the city. And yet -- we've had very high shooting rates for years.

        The question is not WHETHER to enforce the law, but how.

        I'm sure the Chicago cops really want to put bad guys away.  I'm real sure they don't like having guns pointed their way.

        The homicide clearance rate is shameful -- about half that of New York City -- a result of too few beat cops, too few detectives, and the fact that many homicides take place in neighborhoods where the locals don't exactly trust police.

        But homicides are just a sliver of the gun problem.  Most guns are never used to kill somebody, even if they are used to compel people to give up their wallets, their cash register contents, etc.

        LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

        by dinotrac on Sun Apr 07, 2013 at 08:56:35 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Yes, actually in some places, they can (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JohnB47, a gilas girl, gffish

      See stop and frisk in NYC, for example.
      Secondly, enforcing laws would be confiscating guns owned by people who break the law as one example.
      For example, if a game warden finds you out spotlighting deer (which is illegal), he can confiscate any guns you have in your vehicle. Any guns you have at home are safe, unless you do something really stupid, like shoot at the game warden.
      Many times, the hunter will get the charges pled down and get their guns back, even though they've already proven not to be  Responsible Gun OwnersTM.

      “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

      by skohayes on Sun Apr 07, 2013 at 06:28:17 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  In Utah (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        viral, tb mare, skohayes, ban nock

        they will take your guns and your vehicle and it will cost you dearly, money and jail time. Any person can and is encouraged to report poaching or spotlighting. We even have a special 911 type number to call.

        "The scientific nature of the ordinary man is to go on out and do the best you can." John Prine

        by high uintas on Sun Apr 07, 2013 at 08:10:01 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  All nice -- but that only gets people you hear (0+ / 0-)


          Criminals don't tend to be so cooperative.

          LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

          by dinotrac on Sun Apr 07, 2013 at 08:57:18 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Other people turn them in, either for the reward (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            high uintas

            of an extra free license or to stop them from breaking game laws.

            Game laws are mostly self enforced by other hunters. They are an agreed upon set of rules we have codified into law to protect species, ensure plentiful game, and an equal chance for all to harvest.

            Game laws are of necessity complex, most people who break them don't mean to and receive little punishment. Shining deer with a light would result in some strong punishment here. They'd let you plead it down from a felony but you wouldn't do it twice.

            How big is your personal carbon footprint?

            by ban nock on Sun Apr 07, 2013 at 03:02:29 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Well... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      ...they can't just stop anyone who they think looks "wrong" if they are white...that old defeat the purpose of stop and frisk laws that are supposed to intimidate the Black and Latino men the police are trying to frighten into staying at home...

      Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel

      by a gilas girl on Sun Apr 07, 2013 at 06:55:59 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Find a way to use forfeiture and let the cops (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      make money off busting people committing the crime of choice.

      Create a bunch of slogans and banners and slick Superbowl ads to catapult the message to the people regarding the crime of choice.

      Give more money to the cops; find Amendments to weaken to make the job easier. Making proving that a person is not engaging in crime of choice a requirement for jobs and state benefits.

      Accuse anybody who wants to refine any of the related laws as being soft on crime.

    •  We could create an agency whose job (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      is to enforce laws.

      We could call them "Law Enforcement".

      •  Strike that comment. I misread things (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        partly cuz ol computer is acting twitchy today.....

        I thought it was something about financial crimes, not guns.

        No... I can't say why I thought that.....

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