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View Diary: What Exactly is in Dilbit? It is a Secret. (242 comments)

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  •  no such claims that I can remember, I just (3+ / 0-)

    wrote "benzene" without quantifying it.

    •  This claim right here was made (0+ / 0-)
      One of the primary thinning agents is benzene.
      in this diary

      What does "primary" mean?  To me, at least half of the entity in question - which means that if diluent is added to 30%, then benzene must be present in quantities up to at least 15%.

      But it's not, it's 100x lower than that.

      And that's quite a telling claim that you don't quantitate the amount, yet you're quite willing to shout it's dangers far and wide.

      That is really, really bizarre!!  Based on the age old axiom that the dose is what determines whether something is a poison or not . ..  

      •  i think you're stretching... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        elwior, Agathena, Bisbonian

        i would take that statement to mean that among thinning agents, benzene is used most frequently or in the greatest quantity among a variety of other thinning agents.  there is no reasonable interpretation of that sentence that would describe how much benzene would be in a mixture of dilbit in a pipeline.

        tonic water is one of the primary thinning agents in drinks made with gin.

        that statement tells me nothing about how much tonic water is used in a given drink made with gin, though i could predict that if i were in a bar where gin drinks are served, a lot of them would have tonic water in them.

        i'm part of the 99% - america's largest minority

        by joe shikspack on Mon Apr 08, 2013 at 01:04:48 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Still, that is absolutely false (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Johnny Nucleo, LakeSuperior
          i would take that statement to mean that among thinning agents, benzene is used most frequently or in the greatest quantity among a variety of other thinning agents.
          complete bullshit basically.  which your tonic water example nicely illustrates - it is easily more than 50% of the drink in question.

          benzene is much too valuable of a chemical (it's current cost in bulk is something like $4.73 per gallon and in purified form several times that) to be used as a diluent in any other form than as a trace contaminant in the naphtha formulations used for this purpose.

      •  As has been pointed out, the EPA has (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        elwior, Agathena

        to have some level that it uses to address safety. Even if it is false.

        The American Petroleum Institute (API) stated in 1948 that "it is generally considered that the only absolutely safe concentration for benzene is zero."[API Report]
        Even the American Petroleum Institute has not reversed or modified that statement. Because 65 years have only shown that it is unsafe at any concentration.

        The people in the area - not just the one neighborhood, have experienced headaches and other symptoms associated with benzene. The lessons unlearned from all the years of polluting land, water and air, are that humans, flora and fauna suffer the consequences. Even if we don't know exactly what they will be until enough time has passed and data collected.

        CDC:  Facts About Benzene [My emphasis]

        How you can protect yourself,
        and what to do if you are exposed to benzene

        If you think you may have been exposed to benzene, you should remove your clothing, rapidly wash your entire body with soap and water, and get medical care as quickly as possible.

        Removing your clothing

        Quickly take off clothing that may have benzene on it. Any clothing that has to be pulled over the head should be cut off the body instead of pulled over the head.

        Contaminated clothing should be double bagged and turned over to proper agencies for safe disposal. All contact lenses discarded.

        Did the pregnant gal who spilled gas all over her have a chance to do any of this? In 5 or 10 years, if she or the child have a medical problem associated with benzene, will she remember the incident or realize the danger of benzene in gas?

        As an RN, formerly married to an env eng who did all kinds of hazmat clean up and often was the site safety officer, the health effects are always underestimated. The cost would be too prohibitive. We live in a world with more and more toxins that we are learning very slowly what damage they cause over time. I've had patients with really bizarre medical conditions, most likely from a chemical at their job, that environmental med docs could not figure out or treat.

        One of the things Alan dealt with was not being able to identify the chemicals in a spill area, no matter how high tech the lab tests were. The landowner's don't always know, even if they are present. Sometimes so many chemicals were put in the area, what formed from them is a mystery.

        "People, even more than things, have to be restored, renewed, revived, reclaimed and redeemed; never throw out anyone. " Audrey Hepburn "A Beautiful Woman"

        by Ginny in CO on Mon Apr 08, 2013 at 03:50:04 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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