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View Diary: Guest Crosspost, Yves Smith: Obama Wants to Be the President Who Rolled Back the New Deal (334 comments)

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  •  Of course. There is no other logical conclusion. (10+ / 0-)

    The man isn't stupid, outnumbered, hog tied, or playing 11th dimensional chess.  He's doing the bidding of the ruling class.   Clinton got away with it because there was not a lot of past behavior to interpret.  This guy has it tattooed on his forehead and has lied from the beginning.  

    This is war.   If there is no Democratic Party, and I'd like the progressive movement to tell us now what.   I sent the AFLCIO an email and asked them the same question.   Are we ready to make them pay and let the chips fall where they may?  

    What we need is a Democrat in the White House.

    by dkmich on Mon Apr 08, 2013 at 01:29:33 PM PDT

    •  Remember this video? (6+ / 0-)

      Let's not kid ourselves. It's been heading this direction for awhile now. Obama feels strong enough to do what Bill wanted to do. It's the establishment elites.

      It's really past time we woke up.

      "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

      by ZhenRen on Mon Apr 08, 2013 at 01:32:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Not even a pretense.... (4+ / 0-)

        He bull shits his way through the campaign.  Day after, he's cutting Social Security.   He's done absolutely nothing but con Democrats.  He's proved they're as stupid as the people who keep voting against their own interests and for the GOP.  Not a dime's worth of difference.  

        What we need is a Democrat in the White House.

        by dkmich on Mon Apr 08, 2013 at 01:37:07 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Name (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          shrike

          one cut to Social Security enacted by Obama. One cut, that's all I ask. The Obama you rail against, he is in your head.

          •  He's putting cuts in his budget (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            YucatanMan, joanneleon

            What is it about that plan that you don't understand?

            "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

            by ZhenRen on Mon Apr 08, 2013 at 02:45:14 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Apparently, (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              shrike

              you don't understand how our government functions. Budget proposals are merely words on paper until the legislature actually enacts those proposals by voting on and passing them in both houses of Congress, after which that legislation must be signed into law by the president. Here's a video that explains it. Just because the president proposes chained CPI, it is not an enacted cut to Social Security. Contrary to what some would have you believe, Obama has not cut Social Security, but has expanded Medicaid (largest expansion in its history) and increased benefits offered by Medicare.

              •  My, how smug (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                aliasalias, Just Bob, joanneleon

                I understand how negotiation works, and when Obama makes an offer, it reveals how low he is willing to go in negotiations. Once on the table, the opposition knows the limits to which the Obama is willing to go, which in practice may be even lower.

                All they need to do is say yes.

                Obama has revealed his hand, without even being asked to. He's been practically begging for a grand bargain since getting into office.

                "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

                by ZhenRen on Mon Apr 08, 2013 at 03:26:39 PM PDT

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                •  "All they need to do is say yes." (0+ / 0-)

                  Pray tell, how likely is this?

                  Yours is a strange theory of negotiation, wherein once a proposal is spoken it necessarily becomes part of all future deals, a kind of legislative invocation. If Obama has been "begging for a grand bargain since getting into office", he's done a piss poor job of getting one through. Yet another reason Obamasux, I suppose.

                  Again, a proposal is not a law, which is reason enough to be smug with people who act like it is.

                  •  Go read a book on negotiation (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    joanneleon

                    This is basic stuff, part of the psychology of negotiating.

                    I recommend "The Negotiation Game" which is excellent.

                    The mere offering of cuts sets a precedent.

                    "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

                    by ZhenRen on Mon Apr 08, 2013 at 04:19:32 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  So, you concede (0+ / 0-)

                      that Obama hasn't actually cut SS? Good. As long as we're just discussing negotiation tactics, I'd love to hear your theories.

                      •  My god... (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Just Bob, joanneleon

                        A classic strawman at its worst. I never said he cut it yet.

                        Okay... this is patently ridiculous.

                        If we don't want him to cut SS (which most Americans naturally are not in favor of) then we must announce as vociferously as we can that we oppose the cuts. If we remain silent, then that might be taken as support. And if we criticize those who take him at his word (as you are doing), we would be in effect quite realistically supporting cuts.

                        "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

                        by ZhenRen on Mon Apr 08, 2013 at 04:34:40 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  In the (0+ / 0-)

                          original comment to which you responded, I asked for evidence of a single cut to Social Security that has been enacted under Obama (not proposed, not discussed, enacted). You have been unable to do so, and, instead, have responded with gobbledygook about negotiating tactics and what must be and mustn't be opposed, absent any evidence save your own self-assurance and maybe something you read in a book one time. How is it that you have the nerve to accuse me of engaging in straw man arguments? You should return to agreeing with those who think like you. It suits you better.

                          •  Oh my... (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            joanneleon

                            Please review the definition of strawman, which is a form a logical fallacy. I see you're at it again.

                            This is now going in circles, right back to the beginning. Go back and read my first reply, and the others, if you want to go in circles.

                            My answers still stand. I'm not confining myself to your self-imposed constructs.

                            "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

                            by ZhenRen on Mon Apr 08, 2013 at 05:56:33 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  My self-imposed construct (0+ / 0-)

                            being the challenge that I originally presented: namely, show a single cut to Social Security enacted by Obama. It is convenient when one can ignore the topic under discussion, answer an unrelated query, and then pretend to have answered the original question (remind me, ZhenRen, what is that called?). You have done a marvelous job of freeing yourself from the confines of my "construct". I commend you!  

                          •  And that is your strawman (0+ / 0-)

                            You're stamping your foot because I won't knock down your own projected construct, without which you have no argument. Hilarious.  I never said he has already made cuts.

                            "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

                            by ZhenRen on Mon Apr 08, 2013 at 06:15:59 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  How proud you must be, (0+ / 0-)

                            refusing to be drawn into a conversation! If you weren't going to answer my question, why did you respond to my comment?

                            No matter, you've acknowledged you have no answer. Obama has not cut SS. All of the hand-wringing and caterwauling in these comments is not because he has actually ever cut SS or Medicaid or Medicare benefits, but because of a proposal which you dislike, because of the way he is negotiating, because you think you know how to negotiate with Republicans more effectively than Obama. Have at it. The world awaits your genius.

                          •  It's the threats to cut that this is about (0+ / 0-)

                            As you well know (unless you're ten).

                            And it isn't lack of intelligence from which Mr. Obama suffers, but rather lack adherence to his campaign promises and professed political ideology. He's being true to his principles (serving the wealthy class).

                            The notion that Obama is superior in intelligence or abilities than the rest of us, and that thus he is beyond reproach and criticism, defies logic and the reality of our political system.

                            Obama is not my King, or my Prince, or my Leader to whom I must submit. He is an elected official, no more no less. We are expected to make our legislative choices known.

                            This attempt at intimidation isn't working. You're only making critics more determined.

                            "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

                            by ZhenRen on Mon Apr 08, 2013 at 07:14:53 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

    •  I am. (0+ / 0-)
      Are we ready to make them pay and let the chips fall where they may?  

      Others have simply gotten old. I prefer to think I've been tempered by time.

      by Just Bob on Mon Apr 08, 2013 at 04:57:26 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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