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View Diary: Dems didn't cave, a "Professional Left" handed the GOP victory by not clapping loud enough part #678 (550 comments)

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  •  The only way to save Social Security (69+ / 0-)

    ... is to restore its Third Rail status and fry any bastard who grabs it.  That, currently, is our president.  We can't throw him out of the party, but we can assert our traditionally orthodox view that Democrats don't cut Social Security, as my sig line does.  That's how you influence normative behavior.

    The issue is the policy and who's doing what with the policy.  Take the issue out of the pro-Obama or anti-Obama frame, please -- it's tiresome and completely beside the point.  Any president who tries to cut Social Security should be flamed to ashes if he doesn't back away.

    If you want to cut Social Security, you're not a real Democrat.

    by Dallasdoc on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 10:53:55 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  I understand the tactic. (9+ / 0-)

      and I wish the commenters that claim they're all about policy would do this:

      Take the issue out of the pro-Obama or anti-Obama frame
      I caution all of you to be careful with the whole "Democratic brand" thing though.  this brand you're talking about is pretty new and could change again in a couple generations.  that's just how things go.

      the "Democratic Brand" used to be racism, after all.

      This comment is dedicated to my mellow Adept2U and his Uncle Marcus

      by mallyroyal on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 11:17:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The brand was racism half a century ago. (7+ / 0-)

        Repukes have owned that market segment since then.

        What we need is a Democrat in the White House.

        by expatjourno on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 11:24:13 AM PDT

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        •  people are alive who remember that. (7+ / 0-)

          it wasn't SO long ago.

          This comment is dedicated to my mellow Adept2U and his Uncle Marcus

          by mallyroyal on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 11:25:20 AM PDT

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        •  According to whom? There are still racist Dems (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          MrQA, AgavePup, mallyroyal

          The idea that the issue of race has been successfully dealt can be seen as unnecessarily provocative and self-serving on it's on.

          The Democratic coalition could change in 2016, not a generation from now. It amazes me how too many think that certain parts of the coalition sound just a bit too much like the wingnuts.

          I think for any of us to just assume the Democratic coalition for the foreseeable future is a mistake.

          For much of the prominent Left Blogosphere that means understanding who is, and is not representative of the majority of the party. It also means understanding that the blogosphere is irrelevant to most voter's lives.

          We are just a bunch of political junkies caught up in a circular pissing match but too intelligent and righteous to see that.

          "There is nothing more dreadful than the habit of doubt. Doubt separates people. It is a poison that disintegrates friendships and breaks up pleasant relations. It is a thorn that irritates and hurts; it is a sword that kills.".. Buddha

          by sebastianguy99 on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 01:23:52 PM PDT

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          •  You're right about this point- (0+ / 0-)
            prominent Left Blogosphere that means understanding who is, and is not representative of the majority of the party.
            "Understanding who" is less than half the problem. The real problem is serving the interests of those who represent the majority of the party.

            That base isn't served by knocking on SSI's door 20+ years before there is any possible need to. Changing demographics are on our side in this issue.

            This is a baaad call for the president to make.

            SSI is the issue we can't back down from.

            That is not negotiable. That is what is.

            America's greatest political dynasty...the Ka'an

            by catilinus on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 02:17:47 PM PDT

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            •  It isn't that simple. (0+ / 0-)

              I don't support having my Social Security COLA cut and I don't support having my benefit amount cut anymore than it already has been.

              People seem to forget that some of us had our benefits cut back in 1984 and as of now, if we do nothing, the SSA says that the program will only be able to pay some 75% of benefits.

              Last time I looked, "the base" included more people who are going to retire after 2033 than before so.

              What President Obama is reported to support is less of a hit than what both parties already did to me in '84, and what some Progressives apparently would like to do to me in the name of "not touching the third rail".

              I see few clean hands among the most vocal because not many people gave a shit about my generation's cut before this proposal. So excuse if I am skeptical that those folks really have my best interests at heart. In short, President Obama is not my only worry.

              "There is nothing more dreadful than the habit of doubt. Doubt separates people. It is a poison that disintegrates friendships and breaks up pleasant relations. It is a thorn that irritates and hurts; it is a sword that kills.".. Buddha

              by sebastianguy99 on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 10:45:27 PM PDT

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      •  People feel betrayed (30+ / 0-)

        ... and they have very good reason to do so.  They express that unhappiness in personal terms against the president, who is perceived as doing the betraying, not without good reason.

        But it's still about the policy.  The policy is indefensible.  The sense of betrayal is personal, and you either feel it or you don't.  I felt betrayed by his first economic appointments, so I haven't felt betrayed since.  I haven't trusted him enough to feel betrayed since Larry Summers and Tim Geithner were named to save Wall Street and screw over the rest of us.

        If you want to cut Social Security, you're not a real Democrat.

        by Dallasdoc on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 12:08:52 PM PDT

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        •  I am very much with you, Dallasdoc. (14+ / 0-)

          As I've said here before, I have no loyalty whatsoever to any party -- Democratic or otherwise.  I don't give a rip about the "Democratic Brand" or voting for Democrats just because they're Democrats.

          I have no loyalty to any person in politics, just because of who they are.  I don't give a rip about Obama as a person, or his "beautiful family," or whatever.  It has no more to do with me or my life than the doings and personalities of various other celebrities I'll never meet or know.

          I don't care about anyone's "office" and don't respect anyone simply because of the title they hold.

          What I care about is what people do, and what is DONE.  As you say, the policies which are followed.  

          My fierce loyalty is to a set of values:  compassion;  helping the less fortunate;  common-sense;  humility;  personal responsibility;  integrity;  keeping one's word;  moderation (i.e. the opposite of rampant, extreme greed and materialism);  taking care of the environment ...

          When I see people going against those values, I will fight them and criticize them, no matter what party they're with, or who they are.  

          If anyone "flat guarantees" no changes to Social Security ... and then a few months later needlessly proposes cuts to it which will hurt millions of vulnerable people ... I will call that adminstration liars, manipulators ... and, yes, even evil (a word I don't ever use lightly).

        •  Love your comments, Dallasdoc. (11+ / 0-)

               That's probably because I agree with about 99% of them (within the margin of error). To paraphrase what someone said to me earlier in the week---I've gotten over the fact that democracy is for sale in America and that we're 'governed' by those willing to play that game. What I really can't get over is that they are governing solely for the benefit of the upper 1% and getting away with it. Anything that the rest of us get is by accident.  

          The Republican motto: "There's been a lot of progress in this country over the last 75 years, and we've been against all of it."

          by Hillbilly Dem on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 12:52:25 PM PDT

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      •  That's true. We had to drive the Dixiecrats (8+ / 0-)

        out of the Party.

        We're going to have to treat moral and ethical peers, the NeoLiberals, the same way.  Not only because it is also the right thing to do, but because it is necessary for the survival of the Party.

        Michelle and I send our thoughts to the Thatcher family and all the British people as we carry on the work to which she dedicated her life" President Obama, on the passing of Margaret Thatcher.

        by JesseCW on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 01:18:22 PM PDT

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      •  now I understand, mally (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dallasdoc, srkp23, kurt, Agathena

        You are a single issue voter, and the issue is racism.

        From that perspective you take the liberty to trash the New Deal and such policies that are the legacy of the Democratic Brand.  Apparently because some of the people involved in creating and building on that legacy were racists. Indeed yes,  racism was prevalent throughout American culture, popular and otherwise, 75 years ago,  and it still persists, despite having been made utterly socially unacceptable and disreputable behavior by the shift in the culture.

        But you think the Democratic Brand is a crock of shit.

        I wept with joy,  and with pride in my country (warts 'n all) when we elected Barack Obama to be President.   The first Black President. Perhaps you had similar feelings.  For me it was the culmination of  two generations of effort and strife,  my adult life, brought to a single moment and symbol of vindication.  Republicans didn't lead us to this point, Democrats did, by honoring that Democratic Brand you so casually dismiss from your short perspective.

        Barack Obama's legacy is unassailable: The first Black President.

        Tragically, that's about all.  And that saddens me, because I really love the guy. He's a beautiful man, father and husband.  But he has badly mis-read the times and the mood of the American People.

        don't always believe what you think

        by claude on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 03:08:03 PM PDT

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        •  no. (0+ / 0-)

          if I were a single-issue voter, and my issue was racism, I wouldn't be a Democrat.  

          I'd start a new Black Panther Party.

          anyway I never "trash the new deal."  what I do is refer to it using the terms people around here refer to stuff like ACA.  hence my usage of "watered down."

          are you telling me SS, as signed, WASN'T watered down?  I doubt you'd say such a thing.

          the modern repubs are fond to tout MLK as having been a republican.  THEY'RE NOT LYING.  and if he hadn't been killed, he might be alive today.

          what do you think "the Democratic Brand" would be to him?

          your "casual dismissal" of his party affiliation when saying who did what to get a man like the prez elected is highly ironic.  I think you're more than intelligent enough to see that, now that I've pointed it out.

          there are inconvenient truths with get in the way of certain memes presented in diaries and threads around here.  I point them out from time to time.  that's not trashing the new deal.

          This comment is dedicated to my mellow Adept2U and his Uncle Marcus

          by mallyroyal on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 06:41:19 AM PDT

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      •  It's already outside that frame for me. (8+ / 0-)

        To me, anyone, from any party or none, that proposes or supports something that will take medication out of my mouth is working in opposition to me and all those like me. Congress already made my life more difficult with one of the provisions of the ACA, that which cut by more than half the money we can put towards buying my medications with pre-tax dollars via a flexible spending account. We used to run out of FSA funds in November; now we will run out in May or June.

        Any person from any party or none who supports the chained CPI is supporting taking medicine out of my mouth, including transplant medication. I do take that seriously, and I don't care who's doing it; it's going to harm me whether it comes from my own Congressman, my President, or that asshole Mitch McConnell.

        I agree that the Democrats were the party of racism, but hopefully that's been changed to some extent over the past fifty years or so. The Dixiecrats and other racists responded to the call by the GOP to "come on down" and be welcome on that side of the aisle, leaving the Democratic Party far better for the loss. The GOP continues to pander to racists in each election. I by no means think all the work's been done, and there's much, much left to do, but at least some changes have taken place.

        Organ donors save lives! A donor's kidney gave me my life back on 02/18/11; he lives on in me. Please talk with your family about your wish to donate.

        Why are war casualty counts "American troops" and "others" but never "human beings"?

        by Kitsap River on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 06:51:11 PM PDT

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    •  when you have a Prez who believes that his (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      corvo, Dallasdoc

      invincible teflon coat will protect and never leave us naked... better get something stronger than just flaming to penetrate that teflon and its belief system.


      A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit.

      by bronte17 on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 11:19:13 AM PDT

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