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View Diary: RKBA: Firearm legislation, a LEO survey (411 comments)

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  •  According to article, that's not what it was. (8+ / 0-)

    There seems to be some other reason.
    The author specifically mentions that proposition.

    "The United States is a nation of laws: badly written and randomly enforced." -Zappa My Site

    by meagert on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 09:39:08 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  The premise that gun control fails (4+ / 0-)

      because the laws of the surround cities, counties, states, etc, just doesn't hold up.  Even at the national level, the nations with outright bans are typically the ones with the highest crime and violence rates.  

      •  That's simply not true (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        stevej, TheFern

        For example, the UK has strict gun control. They also define violent crime differently than the US does. By their definition, the UK has more violent crime than the US. By our definition (specifically, the FBI's definition) the US has more violent crime than the UK.

        •  He's talking about Russia, I'd imagine. (0+ / 0-)

          I'm not sure it's possible to draw a conclusion across all countries, though.

        •  Really? Does it matter how "crime" is defined? (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          oldpunk, ancblu, theatre goon, PavePusher

          I'm a firm believer in letting each nation decide what is a crime by their own societal standards and mores.

          While I may not agree with each definition, it's their own standard.  

          "When you judge me, judge me by my standards and not yours."

          What it does reveal is our cultural differences.  What may be illegal here isn't in Sweden or Denmark.

          Our racist war on drugs has generationally destroyed the African American family, leading to societal instability.  Where once you're "in the system", you stay there most of your life, revolving in and out of jail and "criminal" activity.

          Our society has said that medicinal drugs are illegal.  This has lead to so much violence and destruction, maybe we should rethink this?

          California Marijuana Decriminalization Drops Youth Crime Rate To Record Low: Study

          -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

          by gerrilea on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 02:44:40 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Of course it matters how crime is defined (0+ / 0-)

            In the UK, a shove in a pub is considered a violent crime. In the US, only four specific crimes are put into the violent crime bucket. The only thing that matters is that the US is more violent than the UK. The numbers are apples and oranges.

            noway2 wants us to believe that getting rid of guns doesn't reduce violence. That's a weak argument. Put a loon with a blade in a school and a bunch of people get injured. Put a loon with a gun in a school and a bunch of people get dead.

            •  What you fail to acknowledge here is the (4+ / 0-)

              arbitrary nature of your position.  We may be a violent nation but that's how we created ourselves, is it not? Out of violent revolution?

              We used our force to get our way on this continent and beyond.  Is it any wonder we are still that way today? Nope.

              Our foreign policy is defined by that violence.  Our military industrial complex could not exist if it didn't create a citizenry that was violent.  

              And why do I say your position is arbitrary?  Because you admit that when comparing us to the UK, it's comparing apples to oranges.  You justify this arbitrary argument as proof that we are more violent, obviously not, by our own standards.  Isn't that what matters in the end? Our own beliefs and social standards?

              While I wish for those standards to progressively evolve, it cannot be decreed from upon high.  We must work to change ourselves.

              We have a Constitutional Republic, not a Monarchy, we cannot live like they do, we are not them.  We fought a war to be separate and free from them.  I'd rather not go back to the archaic mentality that those in power "know best".  That's what you'd have me accept.  I do not.

              As for the point of violence from a gun or a knife, there is no difference, the violence is still there no matter what tool you try to ban.  Unless we address the "loon", the "loon" will still be with us, untreated and forever a threat to all of us. Maybe they won't use a gun or a knife but one of those Monster Trucks and drive it through a crowded playground at recess.  Then what?

              This assumes that each "loon" has the same motive to kill and not maim.  I only know that I cannot know what a "loons" motivations" are but if we help the person before they become "the loon", we are all much safer and better off in the end.

              I'd rather work towards a mature, reasoned goal, than meaningless "feel good" measures that will do nothing to help any of us.

              -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

              by gerrilea on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 08:06:09 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Did you just suggest that the UK is a monarchy? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                Further, are you suggesting that only those in power favor sensible gun regulation? It would be more accurate to say that the majority of citizens favor sensible gun regulation and that their elected representatives do not.

                Guns kill a lot of people. Blades and monster trucks do not. Sensible gun regulation and better mental healthcare in this country need not be mutual exclusive. We can have both.

                •  Just saw this reply, busy weekend with work. (0+ / 0-)

                  I absolutely did "suggest" the UK is a Monarchy.  Do they not have a Queen? Yes.

                  Do their "public servants" swear an allegiance to her and not the people? Yes.

                  Can she suspend her Parliament at any time? Yes.

                  Can she dictate what she wishes to be done? Yes.

                  As for the "majority" claim, I beg to differ.  The facts are that Americans are buying 10 million guns each month, so much so that there is a shortage of ammo and firearms.

                  You fail to accept the reality that humans kill humans, it matters not what the tool is.  Ban guns today, tomorrow ban knives, next week ban sticks and stones.  Man is a violent species. I deal in reality not wishful thinking.

                  -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                  by gerrilea on Mon Apr 15, 2013 at 08:56:21 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Wow (0+ / 0-)

                    So, you're unclear on the concept of a figurehead. Okay. The crown could suspend the parliament, but that would likely result in the end of his/her rule. It's not going to happen.

                    The reality is that the Queen is not going to try to dictate what she wishes to be done. The gig is too good to lose.

                    How about reality on our shores? Very few Americans are buying guns, but they are buying a lot of guns. The number of gun owners shrinks every year.

                    What percentage of Americans do you suppose support background checks for 100% of gun sales? I'm pretty sure that you just said a number close to 100. If not then you are decidedly lacking in your grasp of reality.

                    Man is inherently violent. Guns make it easier to kill more people. That is reality.

            •  You've both missed and made my point (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Robobagpiper, gerrilea

              The loon with a knife is a danger.  The loon with a gun is a bigger danger.  The citizen with either is not, yet it is the citizen that is legislated against.

      •  Yeah, Australia and Englad are looking (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        oldpotsmuggler, TheFern

        horrible here.

        While no gun control regulation or law will solve all the problems, context in terms of socioeconomic conditions and attitudes towards firearms need to be considered in any of these statistics.  Reducing access to various firearms, magazines, concealed carry, etc. are only part of a larger picture - even after tracking supply chains more thoroughly to help investigatory agencies.

        "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

        by wader on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 10:37:13 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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