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View Diary: Obama to nominate three, including two Republicans, to labor board. Will Republicans filibuster? (259 comments)

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  •  Oh there's pie alright. It's the pie fights. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kerflooey, Villanova Rhodes, sviscusi

    The gloating and nastiness in this thread is, imho, far worse than the initial error.  So instead of someone simply Googling and pointing this issue out and ending it rationally, as it should have, everyone retreated into their corners, including you, and started throwing pie all over place.  Unsurprisingly, everyone involved now has pie on their faces.

    Wrong ≠ Evil.

    "The first drawback of anger is that it destroys your inner peace; the second is that it distorts your view of reality. If you come to understand that anger is really unhelpful, you can begin to distance yourself from anger." - The Dalai Lama

    by auron renouille on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 09:13:12 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Repeat misinformation enough times... (5+ / 0-)

      ... and it becomes common knowledge.

      It's how Fox News works, and the Right Wing Wurlitzer in general.

      And it's how some people around here work too.  

      Making assertions as facts, especially if they're going to post the same assertion a dozen times in one diary, should pretty much automatically include some sort of proof of the assertion.

      Refusing to do so, not feeling obliged to do so even, while making fun of people who you're misinforming, isn't an accident.  

      *The administration has done virtually nothing designed to reward its partisans. - Kos 8/31/10*

      by Rick Aucoin on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 09:15:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  But instead of correcting the error with a simple (5+ / 0-)

        link to facts, people got nasty.

        I'm simply observing what happened - TomP's note was incorrect but a reasonable belief; the 3-2 tradition, prior to this presidency, prevented filibusters, and is how almost all agencies such as this were staffed until recent times.  Obviously, we're in uncharted territory lately, and look for the Democrats to exact some revenge once the makeup of Congress has made the serving of revenge plausible.

        Instead, people started throwing pie.  Unsurprisingly, that only begat more pie.  Don't envision yourself as some sort of crusading hero here.  You're not.  Crusading, perhaps.

        "The first drawback of anger is that it destroys your inner peace; the second is that it distorts your view of reality. If you come to understand that anger is really unhelpful, you can begin to distance yourself from anger." - The Dalai Lama

        by auron renouille on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 09:22:29 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  pie? (4+ / 0-)

          I don't know about pie, but there have been repeated and in some cases nasty assertions posted all through here and recd by the same crowd, excusing the president for his betrayal of Labor by appointing Labor hating people to the NLRB.

          Now either he had no choice or he back stabbed organized labor and all of us who consider the Democratic party platform to have some meaning.

          But you an try to dismiss it as just some pie fight.  Try to.

          *The administration has done virtually nothing designed to reward its partisans. - Kos 8/31/10*

          by Rick Aucoin on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 09:30:06 PM PDT

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          •  Still not a betrayal (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            auron renouille, sviscusi

            How do you expect five Democrats to get confirmed?  They won't.  The DC Appeals Court already got their marching orders from the GOP and pissed all over recess appointments that don't occur at the end of a session.

            The alternative to the 3-2 split is NLRB being unable to function.

            •  Yeah, to expect 3 Dems to be confirmed after (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Villanova Rhodes, sviscusi

              2 GOP and 1 Dem weren't confirmed is kind of denying reality.  I'm actually surprised that they didn't try to confirm the 2 GOP members but left the 1 Dem alone, but I would guess - and this is rank speculation - that Reid blocked this from happening by always scheduling the motion to proceed on the Democratic nominees before the motions on the two GOP nominees, and withdrawing the GOP nominees' motions every time the Dem nominees' motions failed.

              Some horrible precedent has been set over the past few years.

              "The first drawback of anger is that it destroys your inner peace; the second is that it distorts your view of reality. If you come to understand that anger is really unhelpful, you can begin to distance yourself from anger." - The Dalai Lama

              by auron renouille on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 09:43:44 PM PDT

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              •  There needs to be serious reform (4+ / 0-)

                of the presidential appointment process in general, but the Senate won't do it.  There are dozens of empty positions.

                One way would be to eliminate the filibuster for presidential appointments or put some time limit on the length of debate.  But they won't do that either. =(

                •  Yeah, that's a hard thing to get through when (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  jdsnebraska, Villanova Rhodes

                  the Senate considers itself so tradition-bound and when so few Senate seats are ever seriously contestable.  The problem runs very deep, and because in general the Democratic party is a broader coalition than the GOP, it's one that's going to disproportionately hurt us until eventually it gets bad enough that something has to be done about it.  And it's certainly bad now, but without people banging down the doors of senators in all parties, I don't see how we get there.

                  Ironically, filibuster reform is a big thing for the party faithful of whoever is in power, but the old guard of both parties rarely want to rock the boat and the opposition - whoever the opposition is - accurately views the filibuster as its only power, albeit a crude and blunt one.  That kind of situation does not lend itself to a coalition.

                  "The first drawback of anger is that it destroys your inner peace; the second is that it distorts your view of reality. If you come to understand that anger is really unhelpful, you can begin to distance yourself from anger." - The Dalai Lama

                  by auron renouille on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 10:00:20 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

            •  thats fair enough jdnebraska. (3+ / 0-)

              If you think its a good idea to nominate Republicans to the NLRB then okay.

              I don't think it is, but that's just my opinion.

              But I sure as hell don't think its a good idea for people like,e TomP, Onomastic,Boris godiinuv, and all the other than posted and recd flat out misleading unsubstantiated falsehoods in order to excuse the Presidents appointment of Labor hating Republicans to the NLRB.

              At least you had the good grace to acknowledge it, so hey, my hat is off to you.  

              *The administration has done virtually nothing designed to reward its partisans. - Kos 8/31/10*

              by Rick Aucoin on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 10:20:48 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I think it's a good idea for the NLRB (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Rick Aucoin

                to function, and if that means there's Republicans, that's fine.

                I always want to be called out for being wrong, and I hope that I'm never afraid to admit it, well, when I'm actually wrong.  Sometimes I'm right.

                •  Same here. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  jdsnebraska

                  I've told my wife countless times, if I'm wrong on a matter of fact I will be grateful for someone to show me how I'm wrong so that I can move forward being RIGHT.

                   I never will get people who are so insecure that they have to be right even when they are wrong.

                  *The administration has done virtually nothing designed to reward its partisans. - Kos 8/31/10*

                  by Rick Aucoin on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 10:37:23 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

          •  I'm observing simple behavior. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Eric K

            If you attack a person, they will retreat into a shell and defend themselves.  That's what has happened in this thread.  They were attacked and they responded in kind.

            The belief that law requires the 3-2 appointment system is widespread - and it's almost always wrong (the FEC is a well-known exception, as it has a six-member board and no more than three members can come from the same party, causing a 3-3 split).

            The appropriate response - or at least the mature response - would have been to simply link to one of the many pages explaining this well-known error and its origination.  Instead, much gloating and ugliness resulted.

            Not to sound like anyone's mother, but there are a whole lot of people in this diary who should be ashamed.

            "The first drawback of anger is that it destroys your inner peace; the second is that it distorts your view of reality. If you come to understand that anger is really unhelpful, you can begin to distance yourself from anger." - The Dalai Lama

            by auron renouille on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 09:39:49 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  A link to proof that TomP et al were wrong? (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              apimomfan2, rivercard, WisePiper, Zinman

              I assume you known where burden of proof lies, and I certainly cannot prove a negative, namely that TomP and the dozens who recd his rather insulting AND misleading posts was wrong.

              That's why I took the time to ask him, and all the others who so insistenty made the assertion.

              So they can either inform us, or apologize for misleading so many.  

              *The administration has done virtually nothing designed to reward its partisans. - Kos 8/31/10*

              by Rick Aucoin on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 10:13:56 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I have to agree with Rick (4+ / 0-)

                burden on those stating with arrogant certainty that it was law.I know I was looking for proof while also requesting it from posters. Obviously would have been easier to confirm if it was actually a law.

                My issue is this isn't a gray area. You don't mistakenly "know" something is a law. It either is or you are pulling out of thin air in an attempt to dismiss others arguments.

                Very disingenuous.

        •  The nastiness (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Rick Aucoin

          started with those belittling the ones questioning why he was nominating two republicans. They were called misinformed know nothings for not knowing that  it was the "LAW" with no uncertainty.

          Simple requests for the "LAW" were ignored. I like TomP, but felt his responses were almost HR worthy.

          Your comments about the board and changes needed were right on. My question is what makes you think abiding by this tradition is going to create any appointment action? I believe we still have backlog of judges and no head of ATF

          •  It won't. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            rivercard, Villanova Rhodes, sviscusi

            We need a new Senate.  But appointing three Dems would make the whole mess worse.  Better to at least have appointees that have been sent to the Senate who are ready and able to serve; bear in mind that these folks keep their lives on hold as they wait for the Senate to vote - or not vote - and it's not fair to ask them to do that indefinitely.  So, we need to at least keep the nomination pool fresh in case all of a sudden it becomes possible to move nominees again.

            As a practical matter, we need 60 votes - and 60 real votes, not 59+Lieberman - to actually move this, particularly because Presidential silly season will start as soon as the next Congressional election ends.  If we get that in 2014, then we can do something with some of these issues.  If we don't?  We'll be even deeper into uncharted territory.  Some agencies will be able to stumble along without their appointed directors or executive boards for a long time, but agencies like the NLRB will eventually ground to a total halt.

            At some point, we'll have a large enough Democratic caucus to modify or eliminate the filibuster.  I've never believed that we had 50 votes for that, particularly among the older and more tradition-bound senators.  I think it's foolish to blame just Reid for that; his legacy is the one on the line here, I think he'd move it if he could, and I think that he can't.  But until then?  More silliness.  Ironically perhaps a 55-45 GOP Senate will eliminate it once they face Democratic opposition ;p.  At this point, I'm not sure I care who gets rid of it or how.  It's no way to run a country.

            "The first drawback of anger is that it destroys your inner peace; the second is that it distorts your view of reality. If you come to understand that anger is really unhelpful, you can begin to distance yourself from anger." - The Dalai Lama

            by auron renouille on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 09:51:42 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

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