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View Diary: PPP's new Kentucky poll once again offers weak numbers for McConnell (73 comments)

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  •  That's where selling the Dem agenda is critical (0+ / 0-)

    Kentucky is conservative because the GOP has done a good job selling the majority of voters on their agenda.

    Their agenda isn't working anymore for people in Kentucky.

    Kentucky needs candidates who can sell the voters on a Dem agenda.  If you can't sell voters on what your party stands for, you shouldn't be running.

    It is an old strategy of tyrants to delude their victims into fighting their battles for them. FDR

    by Betty Pinson on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 11:49:30 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Kentucky is conservative because (7+ / 0-)

      the people there are conservative.  The changing fortunes of parties in different states that aren't undergoing dramatic demographic change has more to do with the changing of the party's ideology than the states.  Democrats were more competitive (in fact dominant) in the South when Democrats running in those states were more conservative.  Republicans in the Northwest and Northeast were more competitive when the candidates they ran were liberals.  The states in the Northwest and Northeast were always liberal, the states in the South were always conservative.  What has changed has been the ideological persuasion of the party & its candidates, not the state.

      ...better the occasional faults of a government that lives in a spirit of charity, than the consistent omissions of a government frozen in the ice of its own indifference. -FDR, 1936

      by James Allen on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 12:27:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's not much different than Ohio (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        demographicarmageddon

        and we have a progressive Dem senator who knows how to talk to voters in rural areas.

        It's a myth to assume red states have always been steeped in Rush Limbaugh style attitudes.    If you study some political history, especially races in the Depression and post-Depression area, you would be very surprised at the political beliefs of people in rural areas.

        Someone has been doing diaries on the topic here, really good stuff - analyzing issues and candidates by county and Congressional district in national races back in the 30's, 40's and early 50's.  Interesting stuff.

        I'll see if I can find a link for the diaries for you.

        It is an old strategy of tyrants to delude their victims into fighting their battles for them. FDR

        by Betty Pinson on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 12:41:18 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Ohio is not a red state (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          R30A, The Caped Composer, bumiputera

          and rural areas in different places are, well, different.  Some are Democratic, some are Republican, some are swingy.  The people and circumstances are different.  Just because something works well in some parts of rural Ohio doesn't even mean they'll work in other parts of Ohio, much less other parts of the country.

          ...better the occasional faults of a government that lives in a spirit of charity, than the consistent omissions of a government frozen in the ice of its own indifference. -FDR, 1936

          by James Allen on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 12:48:42 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yeah, it is (0+ / 0-)

            Perhaps not as red as KY, but still pretty red.

            You have to sell your party's ideas if you want to change minds.  Nothing is permanent.

            Enjoy the diary and link below.  

            It is an old strategy of tyrants to delude their victims into fighting their battles for them. FDR

            by Betty Pinson on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 12:50:39 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  a black guy with a funny name won it twice (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              R30A, The Caped Composer

              it may not be a blue state, but its certainly not a red state.

              ...better the occasional faults of a government that lives in a spirit of charity, than the consistent omissions of a government frozen in the ice of its own indifference. -FDR, 1936

              by James Allen on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 12:56:53 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Focus on issues (0+ / 0-)

                Kentuckians have voted for Dem issues in the past, they can again.

                It is an old strategy of tyrants to delude their victims into fighting their battles for them. FDR

                by Betty Pinson on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 01:02:37 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Example (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Gygaxian

                  Sherrod Brown focuses on jobs, Social Security & Medicare - very popular issues even with wide swathes of  conservatives, especially during a bad economy.

                  You don't need to run to the right on those issues - the Republicans already have a record of failure (if Obama isn't careful, we'll be joining the GOP in the dog house on those issues).

                  It is an old strategy of tyrants to delude their victims into fighting their battles for them. FDR

                  by Betty Pinson on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 01:10:01 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  well now you're not even responding to me. (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    R30A, NMLib

                    I agree that we don't need to run people who are right wing on economics in Kentucky.  

                    ...better the occasional faults of a government that lives in a spirit of charity, than the consistent omissions of a government frozen in the ice of its own indifference. -FDR, 1936

                    by James Allen on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 01:11:26 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Then you don't need to run a Blue Dog (0+ / 0-)

                      who has to rely on money from corporations who are bad for jobs and bad for SS & Medicare.

                      Ashley Judd would have been just fine, and she wouldn't have needed to rely on corporate cash to run her campaign.  There's nothing the GOP could have said about her that was worse than what was said about Sen. Barack Obama, yet we backed him when he ran.  

                      Why is there a different standard when it comes to Dem women candidates?  Why do Dems only support women candidates if they're quiet, obedient and don't advocate strongly for issues?  Dems used to support bright, outspoken women candidates who ran for and won elections.  Now they seem to only support cookie cutter types who will do as they're told.  

                      The days of great Dem women leaders like Pat Schroeder and Bella Abzug are over.

                      It is an old strategy of tyrants to delude their victims into fighting their battles for them. FDR

                      by Betty Pinson on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 01:29:10 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  its not different because Judd was a woman (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        NMLib, R30A

                        we backed Obama, but Obama lost Kentucky with only 41% in 2008, and did worse in 2012.  Running a candidate like Obama is a non-starter.  They could not even make it competitive.  As the polling shown here demonstrates, once McConnell's allies started hammering Judd's beliefs, her numbers tanked.

                        And there's plenty to distinguish KY Dems from Republicans on besides economic issues.

                        ...better the occasional faults of a government that lives in a spirit of charity, than the consistent omissions of a government frozen in the ice of its own indifference. -FDR, 1936

                        by James Allen on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 06:10:42 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  You have to do the ground work (0+ / 0-)

                          You have to sell Dem values and candidates 24/7, every year to rebuild support.   Charismatic candidates every 8 years or so doesn't get the job done.

                          That's why Howard Dean's 50 state strategy was so brilliant.  Unfortunately, it was anathema to the corporate donors and their quisling Dems.

                          It is an old strategy of tyrants to delude their victims into fighting their battles for them. FDR

                          by Betty Pinson on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 06:28:23 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                      •  What the hell are you talking about? (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        R30A, The Caped Composer

                        Many of us backed candidates like Tammy Baldwin and Elizabeth Warren, as far as I can tell, neither of them have ever been accused of being wallflowers or not staking out their positions. What you're basically saying is that we would have had no problem whatsoever if instead of Ashley Judd who was considering a run it was George Clooney instead.

                        Throwing around sexism as a reason why many of us didn't support Judd in Kentucky is insulting when you have no evidence to back it up other than we didn't support Judd, and she happens to be a progressive woman (like I said before, I'm absolutely happy with progressive women, we need more of them, not less of them, not just for women, but for progressive politics in general).

                        Politics and more Formerly DGM on SSP. NM-01, 26 (chairman of the Atheist Caucus)

                        by NMLib on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 06:39:17 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

        •  Here's one of the diaries (0+ / 0-)

          How Democrats Won Back the House in 1954 (and how they lost it in 1952): Various Perspectives.

          Here's a great link from the diary that has historical data on elections

          Link

          It is an old strategy of tyrants to delude their victims into fighting their battles for them. FDR

          by Betty Pinson on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 12:49:32 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  and btw, I have a degree in political science (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          R30A, The Caped Composer, jncca, NMLib

          I have studied political history.  Many of the Democrats elected in the 1930s and 1940s in places that are now considered conservative were conservative Democrats.  States were more willing to consider someone with a different ideological bent in some periods more than now (see Frank Church), but they tend to elect people who reflect their views.

          ...better the occasional faults of a government that lives in a spirit of charity, than the consistent omissions of a government frozen in the ice of its own indifference. -FDR, 1936

          by James Allen on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 12:55:54 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Then why do you think KY can only elect (0+ / 0-)

            conservatives and GOP-like Democrats?

            It is an old strategy of tyrants to delude their victims into fighting their battles for them. FDR

            by Betty Pinson on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 01:31:06 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  perhaps because it is true, (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              R30A

              or at least I've seen enough evidence suggesting so that I believe it.

              ...better the occasional faults of a government that lives in a spirit of charity, than the consistent omissions of a government frozen in the ice of its own indifference. -FDR, 1936

              by James Allen on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 06:03:26 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  You'll never know unless you try (0+ / 0-)

                and there's nothing to be gained by caving to Republicans.

                Remember what Harry Truman said "Give voters a choice between a real Republican and a fake one and they'll chose the real one every time".

                I'm a Harry Truman Democrat, I believe in supporting my party, selling its values and fighting the GOP.

                It is an old strategy of tyrants to delude their victims into fighting their battles for them. FDR

                by Betty Pinson on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 06:24:03 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Sure, we can try. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  R30A

                  But look at Republicans.  They ran pretty solid conservatives in 2010 in places on the opposite end from Kentucky in places like California (Carly Fiorina) and Washington (Dino Rossi).  Republicans have yet to knock off a Democrat in a blue state with a conservative.  What makes you think we can knock off a Republican in a red state with a liberal?

                  And if we try, it's not just a scientific experiment.  We more likely than not do worse than we would have otherwise and we potentially drag down the Democrats in the State Legislature, which we partially hold right now.

                  20, CA-18 (home), CA-13 (school)
                  politicohen.com
                  Socially libertarian, moderate on foreign policy, immigration, and crime, liberal on everything else.
                  UC Berkeley; I think I'm in the conservative half of this city. -.4.12, -4.92

                  by jncca on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 08:36:01 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  It's the bad economy (0+ / 0-)

                    Conservative voters focus less on wedge issues when the economy is in trouble, when they have to worry about making ends meet.

                    The ongoing bad economy also makes GOP voters question their own party and its candidates.  They're upset that their party is focusing on BS issues instead of trying to get the economy back on track.  They're beginning to question conservative doctrine on trickle down economics as their families, friends and communities are being devastated by a recession that grinds on without relief.

                    Failure of any party to resolve pocketbook issues is always a threat to voter loyalty.

                    It is an old strategy of tyrants to delude their victims into fighting their battles for them. FDR

                    by Betty Pinson on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 05:56:17 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

      •  well I think Grimes is a Wendell Ford type dem (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        R30A, trowaman

        which would play well there. Its not like Ed Markey is running in KY

        RRH expat (known as AquarianLeft). Also known as freepcrusher on leip atlas forum

        by demographicarmageddon on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 02:03:46 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  yup (6+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        R30A, sacman701, jncca, skibum59, James Allen, NMLib

        There seems to be this idea that the parties can just focus on a state and change the people from liberal to conservative or vice versa.  It has never, ever happened like that.  The parties have always been helpless in the face of ideological shifts in the states.  The parties are reactive, not proactive.

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