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View Diary: Abbreviated Pundit Round-up: On gun responsibility and the Senate (96 comments)

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  •  Gun legislation IS dead Greg. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FogCityJohn

    What we are talking about is background check legislation. Gun legislation (that is regulation of guns & ammunition not people) isn't even on the table any more.

    •  it is alive in NY, CT, MD and CO (17+ / 0-)

      and background checks matter more than an AWB. Don't miss the forest for the trees.

      I am not a Margaret Thatcher fan but I do like a few of her quotes.

      “You may have to fight a battle more than once to win it.”

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 04:58:28 AM PDT

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      •  Those aren't the states that were filling the (5+ / 0-)

        nations with guns in the first place. Any homicide detective in New York will tell you the vast majority of murders in NYC occur with guns legally purchased somewhere in the South.

        In those states the laws are going in the other direction.

        •  But passing anything is a huge step in the right (10+ / 0-)

          direction. What do you think is going to happen once politicians see that you can cross the NRA and still win elections. The background checks are very important, and there is clearly more work that needs to be done, but if this legislation passes it is a MAJOR blow to the NRA.

          •  Not much. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            tb mare, pelagicray, gc10

            It took the slaughter of children to get us a loopholy bachground check. You think now theres going to be an outbreak of gun regulation? Methinks not.

            Its going take another couple of massacres (meanwhile the normal everyday gun killing will continue) or a changing demographic tide when the people who live with gun violence as a part of everyday life (mostly minorities) become a majority.

            •  I don't know whay we always do this (9+ / 0-)

              it's the Obama care discussion 9but it's not single payer) all voer again.

              Gets old, ya know? You have to recognize progress when you see i, and then build on it.

              No one is quitting this fight, not in our lifetime.

              "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

              by Greg Dworkin on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 05:55:39 AM PDT

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              •  Some People Need Instant Gratification, Otherwise (6+ / 0-)

                All they see is failure. Some people just don't get that real progress is slow and plodding, it's rarely immediate.

                They take a look at Bush and say "See, look what HE got done!" without realizing that wasn't progress, it was destruction and dismantling. That's easy and happens quickly. But progress? That ain't easy.

                This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

                by Beetwasher on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 06:38:19 AM PDT

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                •  Yes, and it is one of our real social/political (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Beetwasher

                  problems. I've often commented here about how real change is a long, hard, often discouraging and sometimes futile work in progress for all of us. You make a very good point on the ease of destruction vice construction or major course change for the better.

                  Electing one president once, even twice doesn't usually accomplish much constructively, particularly when lack of continued interest allows what I've observed over fifty years of voting—what I called elsewhere the two step forward, one and a half back step dance. Also forgotten is that the Reagan "revolution" was not spontaneous by any means. It was the culmination of a long, well financed and planned effort dating back to reaction to FDR's change and a lack of passing on the flame by our side.

                  Solving problems, building is much harder, longer term and requires closer attention to a range of issues than burning the carefully and hard built house.

                  The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. [Elbert Hubbard]

                  by pelagicray on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 08:30:24 AM PDT

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              •  Reagan and Brady shot to Brady Bill... (0+ / 0-)

                ...5 years, IIRC. Regrettably, I expect our current struggle to take longer.

                When you are right you cannot be too radical; when you are wrong, you cannot be too conservative. --Martin Luther King Jr.

                by Egalitare on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 06:53:05 AM PDT

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            •  Well, then, let's just do nothing! (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              annominous, SoCalSal

              We can't accomplish miracles (although IMO, getting a bill through the US Senate is a BIG miracle), so let's just sit on our hands and do nothing. What are you waiting for?

              Background checks could lead to making straw purchasing illegal, which would cut down on illegal guns in the city quite a bit.

              “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

              by skohayes on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 06:47:58 AM PDT

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          •  Yup - this is America. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            skohayes

            We cannot do the right thing at first nor all at once. We must painfully continue to do that which is PROVEN to be counterproductive as long as feasible so that we can then take the glory for something that should have been accomplished generations ago.

            Incrementalism is our value. The more creeping it is, the better for the status quo.

            Let us take the tiniest baby-steps possible towards what is clearly the correct answer.

            •  I Think That's Progress in General, For The Most (7+ / 0-)

              Part.

              Real progress IS slow, because you are always fighting a running battle against the recidivists. They are blocking your way forward and attempting to dismantle what's already been accomplished.  So progressives are always fighting on two fronts, the vanguard and a rearguard action.

              The recidivists have it easy. All they have to do is smash things.

              This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

              by Beetwasher on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 06:40:45 AM PDT

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          •  Just being able to discuss it without being (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            belle1, Miggles

            shouted down or threatened is a huge step.

            You can't make this stuff up.

            by David54 on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 06:51:07 AM PDT

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      •  “You may have to fight a battle more than (4+ / 0-)

        once to win it"

        One should - ideally - define one's enemy as one's enemy and focus on incapacitating them as quickly as possible and ENSURING they are not going to recover and continue to be your enemy. (You do want to WIN don't you?)

        Why fight it more than once if you don't really have to? (You do want to WIN don't you?)

        The LAST THING YOU DO is give them what they want. What kind of sense does that make? Posturing?

        Incapacitating the Right Wing of America is a war, not a battle: it is a far larger collection of conflicts greater than any one particular battle.

        Dems and liberals in general lack this essential ability to determine when to be 'mean-spirited'. Your enemy - the Republicans -  they are MASTERS of mean-spiritedness and they are defined by it in large part.

        Winning requires stepping on toes and defeating somebody who is NOT concerned about your toes. if you insist on remaining polite and respectful in the face of these bastards you're not going to prevail as easily as you could....

        The goddamned sequester is a fabulous example of not just fighting the same battle over and over: it institutionalizes the entire concept. That battle can now be dragged out for years.

        This is why dems are such disgusting losers. They are absolutely committed wimps. Harry Fucking Reid is the posterboy. Obama's brilliant strategery belongs there to. So much for his 11 dimensional bullshit. Caving to your enemy is NOT WINNING.

        Mostly I vote against republicans rather than "for" democrats for this very reason. It's that or not vote at all.

        God forbid we do something correctly the first time around.

        •  oh, sure (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          BlueStateRedhead, Miggles, SoCalSal

          just win. If you can.  ;-)

          I am all for that.

          but when you can't just win, which is much of the time...

          "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

          by Greg Dworkin on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 05:56:36 AM PDT

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        •  I partially agree with you. But you don't step (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Stude Dude

          on toes if it means you lose the war. I agree Dems and progressives need to develop a killer instinct.
          I think civilization depends on it.

          You can't make this stuff up.

          by David54 on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 06:54:59 AM PDT

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        •  Have to agree in part, not entirely, as a fair (0+ / 0-)

          bit of our present problem was failure to consolidate the wins of the 1930s and 1940s by truly crushing those plutocrats, many flirting with Nazis in 1939-40, and keeping the lessons alive in our own children and grandchildren as those enemies of the New Deal established "think tanks" and long range planning to undermine and reverse progressive efforts. I've quoted it before and it is worth doing again:

          One needs not erase history. One needs only fail to teach one generation of children. Fail with two, and the destruction widens. [C. J. Cherryh in Hammerfall]
          I came to maturity thinking we'd learned basic lessons about unregulated capitalism and greed and were learning and progressing on even racial monsters that haunted our history. I knew the past, but deeply underestimated how little my contemporaries or younger cohorts knew nothing.

          I now understand even that. I was discouraged, but not surprised twenty years ago to hear well educated youngsters asking why the hell we needed emissions testing of cars in the D.C. metro area when the skies were clear and the air clean. I had to explain 1970 D.C. when the Washington Monument was hardly a shadow in yellow haze from the Capitol (or even closer) and a fall into the Potomac was prophylactic doctor visit for a round of shots.

          I don't think the problem is just Democrats in office.

          The problem lies with a society too ADD and too self absorbed to know and maintain a progressive political party election after election, year after year, decade after decade. Pogo was right.

          The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. [Elbert Hubbard]

          by pelagicray on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 08:49:13 AM PDT

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      •  As a Marylander, I'm glad my state (9+ / 0-)

        passed the new laws.  Our problem, though, is that guns come in from VA. The same thing happens in DC.  Unless we get some sort of national laws in place, those of us who live in states with stricter gun laws will still be victimized by those states who have little or no gun control.

        “It is the job of the artist to think outside the boundaries of permissible thought and dare say things that no one else will say."—Howard Zinn

        by musiclady on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 05:56:13 AM PDT

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    •  Last I heard, the NRA was still fighting hard (18+ / 0-)

      against background checks.  When they lose on this issue, it will become possible to defeat them on the bigger ones.

      Their aura of invincibility is what has prevented any gun legislation over the last twenty years.  That aura is about to be punctured.

      When the union's inspiration /Through the workers' blood shall run /There can be no power greater /Anywhere beneath the sun /Solidarity Forever!

      by litho on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 04:59:01 AM PDT

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    •  Even if anything passes, what chance does it have (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      walk2live

      in the House?

      •  very little.. (0+ / 0-)

        I was just going to make the same comment. But, that's no reason not to try to move the debate, and get these senators on the record.

        I'm not even sure the House will bring it up for a vote. But, it'd be nice to see some pressure put on them. Maybe something will happen.

        Freedom isn't free. So quit whining and pay your taxes.

        by walk2live on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 08:37:46 AM PDT

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    •  This time. The gun regulation movement is going to (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      BlueStateRedhead

      grow, though.

      You can't make this stuff up.

      by David54 on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 06:50:13 AM PDT

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