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View Diary: Hellraisers Journal: Bernie Sanders and Richard Trumka Stand Together for Working People (22 comments)

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  •  Scab is a word with a very particular meaning. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ban nock, UnaSpenser, NY brit expat

    And when we overuse the word, it loses its meaning.

    We can strongly disagree with a union leader's position without calling them a scab.

    WE NEVER FORGET For March: Francis Estep, UMWA Martyr

    by JayRaye on Mon Apr 15, 2013 at 06:23:59 AM PDT

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    •  I use it because of it's connection to labor (0+ / 0-)

      strikes and unions. Someone who is brought from outside to break a strike by working.

      By continuously importing workers to compete for American's jobs corporate America is busting any chance workers have of getting increased wages. It's been going on for 30 years, and I just don't like hearing the President of the largest union supporting it.

      Goes beyond doing the humanitarian thing for those already here, it's importing new people to lower wages and compete with all who are already here.

      How big is your personal carbon footprint?

      by ban nock on Mon Apr 15, 2013 at 02:21:29 PM PDT

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      •  The word scab does not mean you dislike what (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        UnaSpenser, NY brit expat

        a labor union leader is doing.

        Come on, words have meaning.

        It may make you feel all radical and self righteous to use the word like that, but it in the end you are being hyperbolic and not contributing to the discussion.

        This is an important issue worthy of a more complete analysis.

        WE NEVER FORGET For March: Francis Estep, UMWA Martyr

        by JayRaye on Mon Apr 15, 2013 at 03:15:31 PM PDT

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        •  scab is much nicer than what I'd like to say (0+ / 0-)

          but I don't cuss in public.

          When a labor leader screws over American workers they should expect some noise.

          Every time I see a UPS guy I tell him thanks for belonging to the Teamsters. Today when he came to the door with the package I told him what Trumka did.

          I don't feel radical or self righteous, I feel like a guy with two small kids who labors for pretty low wages.

          Any time I see Trumka's name I run to the sink to spit that taste out.

          How big is your personal carbon footprint?

          by ban nock on Mon Apr 15, 2013 at 04:40:02 PM PDT

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          •  Not only do you not know what the word (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            UnaSpenser, NY brit expat

            scabs means but you don't seem to understand the details of the deal that has been reached.

            Or you are simple a knee-jerk nativist.

            Here is the deal that has been worked out. It is the right-wingers who will oppose it. So you see the company that you are in?

            http://www.aflcio.org/...

            Trumka did more for working people as President of the UMWA and leader of Pittston Strike than most of us will do in our entire lives.

            WE NEVER FORGET For March: Francis Estep, UMWA Martyr

            by JayRaye on Mon Apr 15, 2013 at 04:59:19 PM PDT

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            •  go ahead, call me a racist all you want (0+ / 0-)

              see what kind of response the news got here when Larra Clauson first posted it. I'm not the only blue collar American who reads this page.

              Since when do Dems not stick up for working people? AFLCIO can go suck eggs and bring the UMWA with them.

              At one time Unions did good for American workers, now, I think they try to forestall the inevitable for their members and the heck with the rest of us.

              You side with the Chamber of Commerce, I dont'.

              How big is your personal carbon footprint?

              by ban nock on Mon Apr 15, 2013 at 06:41:43 PM PDT

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              •  The UMWA has sacrificed more for working people (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                UnaSpenser, NY brit expat

                than any other union in this country.

                Please do not come into Hellraisers ever again. This is a pro-union series and you do not belong here.

                WE NEVER FORGET For March: Francis Estep, UMWA Martyr

                by JayRaye on Mon Apr 15, 2013 at 06:48:12 PM PDT

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              •  And yes I have read those debates (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                UnaSpenser, NY brit expat

                Pros and cons were discussed without calling anyone a scab and without telling any union to go suck eggs.

                Your inability to discuss an issue without insulting unions is not welcome here at Hellraisers. Many of us have spent years doing the difficult task of working within the union movement and your input is not at all helpful towards changing the union movement for the better.

                WE NEVER FORGET For March: Francis Estep, UMWA Martyr

                by JayRaye on Mon Apr 15, 2013 at 07:12:10 PM PDT

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              •  perhaps you have reading comprehension (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                NY brit expat, JayRaye

                difficulties.

                She didn't call you a racist. She suggested you might having a nativist reaction. That's not racist. Americans are multi-racial.

                She's also suggesting that you're reactionary, as it doesn't seem that you understand what the terms of the deal are.

                You seem very stuck in just denigrating a person and not actually engaging a conversation or opening yourself up to learning.

                Is it possible that you're mistaken? Perhaps you might consider information being presented you and give it some thought. It's not a crime to be mistaken. It's a folly to insist that you're not, however.

      •  These two paragraphs (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JayRaye

        in the AFL-CIO document shows that bringing in immigrants for low wages, what you call 'scabs', is not what is proposed. What it does do is give immigrants protection from abusive employers so that they won't be part of the wage race to the bottom.

        Under the W Visa program, workers will come into the country with the ability to change jobs. They’ll be able to self-petition for a green card after a year here, and they will be covered by state and federal employment laws to the same extent as workers already here. They’ll earn decent wages, the same as American workers, so they won’t be seen as lowering standards and working conditions for all workers.
        and
        We focused on the interests of the stakeholders, not on predetermined outcomes, and we knew when to hold the line. When some Republicans tried to hijack the deal by insisting that new workers should be paid poverty-level wages, we said no
        .
        As someone with a son in the IT business, who has problems with job precarity due to dodgy behaviour by tech companies, I can see nothing here that makes me want to throw spitballs at Trumka. In fact, putting immigrants on the same wage scale will protect jobs for those already here.

        You..ought to be out raising hell. This is the fighting age. Put on your fighting clothes. -Mother Jones

        by northsylvania on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 09:00:50 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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