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View Diary: Yes, Obama Punk'd GOP AGAIN With His Budget (230 comments)

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  •  No, He's Getting The GOP To Support Protecting (10+ / 0-)

    SS from cuts.

    Did you ever think you'd see a full throated, loud vocal support to protect SS from cuts coming from the GOP?

    Do you think that could be exploited somehow?

    This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

    by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 11:25:25 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

      •  Sometimes you have to destroy the village (18+ / 0-)

        in order to save the village dontachaknow.

        "Do what you can with what you have where you are." - Teddy Roosevelt

        by Andrew C White on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 11:27:46 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  nah, I don't think that's (9+ / 0-)

          what's going on here. I think Beetwasher has a good point. The GOP has just been suckered into screaming about how wonderful SocSec is, after they've spent the last 75 years saying the opposite.

          If we can all back away from the info overwhelm 24/7, we might get some perspective. Give the thing a chance to play out a bit.

          There is no question that there is an unseen world. The problem is, how far is it from Midtown and how late is it open? -- Woody Allen

          by Mnemosyne on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 11:53:44 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  NO! (4+ / 0-)

            Obama wants poor and old people to die because he's really a Republican.  I mean, why else would do want the Republicans asked?  I don't see any other reason!!!

            Now, excuse me while return to the echo chamber.

            "If you don't judge my gold chains...I'll forget the iron chains"-- James "LL Cool J" Todd, GOAT

            by lcj98 on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 12:11:26 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  15 Democrats and 15 Republicans voted (4+ / 0-)

            against Social Security in the Senate in 1935.

            Ike expanded it pretty considerably, particularly in terms of survivors benefits.

            No Republicans except those catering to the Birchers were attacking it until the very late 1970's.

             Barry Goldwater, the most far-right Candidate the Republicans fielded between 1932 and 1980, from his official campaign brochure -

            SOCIAL SECURITY
            Barry Goldwater wants to safeguard the "security" in Social Security.

            I favor a sound Social Security system and I want to see it strengthened. I want to see every participant receive all the benefits this system provides. And I want to see these benefits paid in dollars with real purchasing power.

            Their attacks on it started with Reagan, and given the base they want to play too, it only makes sense for them to pivot back if they want to remain viable.

            dEar Ellois: U send Fud down holez, we no eaTz u. That iz deAl. No forget. MooRlockz Haz 2 eats. Stoopid Elloiz.

            by JesseCW on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 12:14:47 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  I hear that point (0+ / 0-)

            but I think it is faaaaaaaaar weaker then a Democratic President just proposed weakening Social Security and making seniors and the disabled poorer.

            "Do what you can with what you have where you are." - Teddy Roosevelt

            by Andrew C White on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 02:07:55 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I guess we'll get to see, (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Andrew C White, aitchdee, Beetwasher

              won't we?

              It'll be interesting to see what shakes out of all this.

              One thing's for sure: No amount of screaming and poutrage on any blog is going to have much of an effect.

              There is no question that there is an unseen world. The problem is, how far is it from Midtown and how late is it open? -- Woody Allen

              by Mnemosyne on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 03:12:45 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  the GOP hasnt been suckered (0+ / 0-)

            into anything. If we've learned anything at all in the last half dozen election cycles is that the cognitive dissonance runs strong with the GOP.

            They are so good at this they can scream to the rafters about how Nobama is cutting SS all the while campaigning on how they are going to cut SS.

            Just in the same way they screamed that nobama was cutting 700 million from medicare and how awful that was, then they proposed their own budget that kept that same 700 million.

            they have no problem talking out of both sides of their face because they know that probably 80% of the electorate is either to ignorant to pick up on it, dont care, or simply hate liberals enough that they will accept anything negative about them.

            Nope, this was simply a mistake, not some intellectual gambit he's just won

      •  Do You Think His Budget Has A Chance In Hell (7+ / 0-)

        of being passed?

        If not, nothing is being destroyed, is it?

        Meanwhile, what is the reality of what is ACTUALLY happening?

        The GOP goes bonkers and comes out supporting protecting SS from cuts.

        The Progressive base is all riled up and motivated to protect SS from cuts.

        I'm looking at what is actually happening, not what you fear might happen, even though you have to admit it's practically impossible to implement since his budget is unpassable.

        This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

        by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 11:32:09 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'll take that to be a yes. (15+ / 0-)

          You believe that President Obama is advocating cuts in SS in order to protect SS.

          I can see other similar maneuvers down the pike:

          President Obama advocates a constitutional amendment against same-sex marriage in order to protect same-sex marriage.

          President Obama advocates a constitutional amendment against abortion in order to protect abortion.

          President Obama advocates breaking up the big banks in order to protect the big banks.

          This is fun!

          •  Actually, Same Sex Marriage Is A Perfect Example (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Quicklund, JBL55, SilentBrook, aitchdee

            Since he originally had a position opposed, then the public had a debate, and he "evolved".

            The same can happen with SS.

            This is a terrific opportunity to have a debate and discussion and educate the public why it's important to protect SS from cuts.

            Or should we not even discuss these things?

            This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

            by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 11:42:38 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  More ways to have fun: (8+ / 0-)

              President Obama advocates a bill for strip mining the entire state of West Virginia in order to protect mountaintops.

              President Obama advocates opening up public lands for frakking in order to expand the national park system.

              President Obama advocates a 75% cut to the military budget in order to protect the military.

              PS: The public is quite well educated on this issue, thank you very much.  Polls show that an overwhelming majority want SS protected from cuts.  It seems that you're going to have to come up with a better rationale.

              •  You Really Believe The Public Is Well Educated (4+ / 0-)

                On this issue?

                Would you be more or less motivated now to vote for a Local Dem Candidate who is running on protecting SS from cuts?

                This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

                by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 11:53:32 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  No - they aren't... (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  rigcath, JesseCW, Aspe4

                  Which is exactly why the Dems are going to get creamed in 2014.

                  'Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost' - Ronald Reagan, Communist

                  by RichM on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 12:12:55 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Nice Crystal Ball, Unless The DO Get Educated (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Quicklund, SilentBrook, aitchdee

                    And motivated to get out and vote to protect SS by voting for every Dem candidate they can get their hands on.

                    What are you doing to motivate people to get out and vote?

                    This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

                    by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 12:16:51 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  The problem is, voters now see the most (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      SpecialKinFlag, Aspe4

                      powerful Democrat in the country proposing cuts to Social Security. Why on earth would that somehow motivate them to vote for Democrats if they want to strengthen SS?

                      "In an individual, selfishness uglifies the soul; for the human species, selfishness is extinction." -Cloud Atlas, by David Mitchell

                      by rigcath on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 12:20:16 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Obama Is Not Running For Office (3+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        JBL55, SilentBrook, aitchdee

                        Mid terms are all local.

                        Who you gonna trust to protect SS? Your local Dem or your local GOP?

                        This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

                        by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 12:24:21 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  If I weren't political, I really wouldn't know. (2+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          Aspe4, Bindle

                          You've got the Democratic president proposing SS cuts, the Democratic House Minority Leader supporting them, and division within the Democratic party on the issue now as well. As you point out, prominent members in the GOP are now coming out opposed to the Democrats' proposed cut. At least for the moment, the GOP looks like the party most vocally opposed to SS cuts.

                          "In an individual, selfishness uglifies the soul; for the human species, selfishness is extinction." -Cloud Atlas, by David Mitchell

                          by rigcath on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 12:49:30 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  A Year and A Half From Now (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            JBL55, SilentBrook, aitchdee

                            Do you think non-political people will think the GOP is the party that's about protecting SS?

                            Really? After years and years and years of running against it?

                            This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

                            by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 12:51:24 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Again, I don't know. And the answer should be NO. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Bindle

                            When has the GOP ever explicitly campaigned on cutting Social Security? Sure, they're proposed "privatizing" it, but to the average voter that is a nebulous term that means next to nothing. If they came out and proposed cutting benefits to current seniors, the way Obama has, voters would rightly reject them, and they know this. Thus why they don't come out and actually propose cuts to SS--because that would effectively end the GOP.

                            I mean, do you really think the GOP won't milk this for all it's worth? They have a blindingly obvious advantage on this until Obama withdraws his proposal (if he even does). If you don't think they're already putting the finishing touches on their SuperPAC ads and lobbying for support from the AARP and all of the other organizations that came out against this SS cut, then you are painfully naive.

                            "In an individual, selfishness uglifies the soul; for the human species, selfishness is extinction." -Cloud Atlas, by David Mitchell

                            by rigcath on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 01:23:44 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  It's A Fine Line To Walk, Even For Competent (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            SilentBrook, aitchdee

                            People.

                            They've been running for 30 years on cutting SS. Both implicitly and explicitly.

                            Boner is already telling his party to shut up about protecting SS.

                            You really think the GOP is competent enough to walk this line?

                            I don't.

                            This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

                            by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 01:27:30 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Then you're in for a 2010-style surprise. (0+ / 0-)

                            Have fun with your complacency.

                            "In an individual, selfishness uglifies the soul; for the human species, selfishness is extinction." -Cloud Atlas, by David Mitchell

                            by rigcath on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 01:31:41 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Who Said Anything About Complacency? (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            SilentBrook, aitchdee

                            WTF are you talking about?

                            I have repeatedly called for the exact oppossite. This should motivate everyone to get out and vote for every Dem they can get their hands on who is running on a platform of supporting SS.

                            This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

                            by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 01:44:42 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I mean, are you aware that the GOP ran (0+ / 0-)

                            against (fictional) Medicare cuts in 2010 and won decisively? Despite the fact that the GOP PLATFORM details how they'd dismantle Medicare? Neither they nor voters give a shit what they party traditionally stood for or which party created what program, they just want to know what they'll do now. And Obama's proposed SS cuts muddy the waters about what the Democrats want to do regarding SS. There's no way around that.

                            "In an individual, selfishness uglifies the soul; for the human species, selfishness is extinction." -Cloud Atlas, by David Mitchell

                            by rigcath on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 01:26:12 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Is That Why They Won in 2010? (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            SilentBrook, aitchdee

                            Really?

                            You realize they ran on cutting SS in 2012 and got their asses whooped, right?

                            Now you're telling me two years later they are going to be able to run on protecting SS?

                            You think they are competent enough to pull that off, when they leaders of their own party are telling them to shut up about protecting SS?

                            I'd call that disarray, not a cohesive message.

                            This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

                            by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 01:31:36 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                  •  And you know this how? (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Beetwasher, SilentBrook

                    "If you don't judge my gold chains...I'll forget the iron chains"-- James "LL Cool J" Todd, GOAT

                    by lcj98 on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 12:18:20 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                •  In other words, (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  rigcath

                  even though you earlier answered No when I asked you if you were saying that by proposing cuts to SS you thought President Obama was protecting Democrats (see here), you're now saying yes.

                  Glad we got that cleared up.  

          •  Ha!, BizzarObama! nt (0+ / 0-)

            "The problem with posting quotes off the Internet is you never know if they're genuine."--Gen. George Washington at the Battle of Gettysburg, February 30, 1908

            by Aspe4 on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 01:19:02 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  It does not matter if he is or isn't (4+ / 0-)

        If the net result in the end works to benefit DEM policy goals, then it doesn't really matter if the President had a Master Plan or if the cookie just crumbled in a benefical way.

        Beetwasher here is just observing that the GOP is taking the short-term easy shots at PBO and in doing so are going on the record in support of SS. Beetwasher is suggesting that might cause long-term complications for the GOP. At worse, it is hard to see how America in 2014 will vote into office enemies of SS, after American in 2013 rallied to protect SS.

        Having SS as a hotbed issue in 2014 is a tide that tends to lift all Democratic boats. Whether the man named Barak Obama foresaw all the twists and turns or not really isn't the point. Barack Obama will never stand for election again.

        •  When has the GOP ever admitted that (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Quicklund

          they were anti SSI? Haven't they always claimed to be preserving it even as they worked to destroy it?

          Nothing human is alien to me.

          by WB Reeves on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 01:36:29 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  My whole life of ~53 years (4+ / 0-)

            I've heard talk about getting rid of SS on and off for as long as I could remember. I remember because as a kid I really did not believe there were Americans who genuinely hated thought FDR and stuff like SS.

            Now as for cloaking their intent in words of support for SS ... I would say that varies in direct proportion to the political skill of the specific speaker.

            I will venture to go one step further. Back when I was a kid some GOP pols might openly speak of killing off SS. But as time has gone on SS opponents have had to reply more and more on cloaking their intent. I submit that is a good sign for the future of SS. (Sort of how racists once felt comfortable about openly being racist.)

            •  I agree that it's good they must cloak their (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Quicklund

              agenda.

              The trouble is they may actually succeed in duping the electorate.

              Which is why it is important to do nothing which lends a spurious credence to their playacting.

              Nothing human is alien to me.

              by WB Reeves on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 02:00:53 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Anything can happen (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Beetwasher, SilentBrook, aitchdee

                But seeing how the bees came buzzing out of the hive over this mild chained CPI change proposal. I seriously doubt the bees will roll over dead for more draconian proposals. And now that the hive has been disturbed I figure, what they heck? Let's hand out poking sticks to GOP candidates - but only after making sure the beer cooler is full. Don't want to miss the show.

                I don't think we are very far apart at all. Difference of opinion seems to lie in the risk estimate. Which is healthy. None of us has a perfect risk predictor.

    •  Sure it could (7+ / 0-)

      but it is vastly easier to exploit his cutting social security because he's actually proposed doing it, put it on paper and sent it to congress.

      "Do what you can with what you have where you are." - Teddy Roosevelt

      by Andrew C White on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 11:28:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Is It? (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Quicklund, SilentBrook, aitchdee

        Really? You think there's a chance in hell his budget could be passed? You think he thinks that?

        This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

        by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 11:46:58 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  As you pointed out, it doesn't matter if it passes (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          RichM, Aspe4, Andrew C White, TracieLynn

          The damage has already been done. The GOP can now say that President Obama is the first Democratic president to propose cuts to Social Security, and that he actually wants to cut it. Whether or not that second part is true doesn't matter because the first part is.

          "In an individual, selfishness uglifies the soul; for the human species, selfishness is extinction." -Cloud Atlas, by David Mitchell

          by rigcath on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 12:04:30 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Except The GOP (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            lcj98, SilentBrook, aitchdee

            Is in dissarray scrambling to support protecting SS, while Boner is telling them to shut up.

            This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

            by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 12:17:35 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  So what? Again: so what? (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Beetwasher, SilentBrook, aitchdee

            The GOP can come out and say these things:

            "Voters! Did you know that President Obama was the first Democratic President to propose cuts to SS*? Now of course that never passed nto law. And of course millions of you wrote, happened, and marched to register your opposition to these cuts. And of course President Obama is not running for office again.

            So we want you to vote for the GOP. Because we all know how strongly Americans feel about protecting SS, we think it's only logial that you should not vote for the party that wants to destroy SS. See how smoothly logical this idea is?"

            * In point of fact I wonder if this is even true. SS benefits have been tweaked upwards and downwards before. And prior to 1975, there were not automatic COLA adjustments made annually. It took an act of Congress to authorize a change to benefits. So I am pretty sure that by the hyper-judgemental atmosphere on DKos today, that other DEM Presidents failed to pass a COLA and thus "cut" SS before.
            •  No, they'll say something more like this: (0+ / 0-)

              Voters! Did you know that President Obama and the Democrats actually proposed cutting Social Security benefits for current seniors? Why do President Obama and the rubber-stamp Democrats in Congress want your grandmother to live on less? Send the Democrats a message: Don't touch my Social Security. Vote for Steve King/Michelle Bachmann/Paul Ryan.

              And it'll be massively successful.

              "In an individual, selfishness uglifies the soul; for the human species, selfishness is extinction." -Cloud Atlas, by David Mitchell

              by rigcath on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 01:27:20 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Doesn't matter whether it gets passed (0+ / 0-)

          of course it won't get passed. That misses the point which is that a Democratic President just proposed weakening Social Security and making seniors and the disabled poorer.

          If I was a republican operative I would be hammering Democrats on this for the entire 2014 election cycle... and I'd be very, very effective at it.

          "Do what you can with what you have where you are." - Teddy Roosevelt

          by Andrew C White on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 02:13:02 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  If You Were A GOP Operative Boner Would Be (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            aitchdee

            Telling you to shut the Fuck up about SS, which is what he's actually doing.

            This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

            by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 06:27:35 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  It's obviously a poor way of going about it, (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      rigcath, Quicklund, Mary Mike

      though.

      He never needed to put SS cuts on the table to maneuver the Republicans into eventually coming out for NOT cutting SS - it could have been part and parcel of either not touching SS or provocatively increasing its collections/payouts (e.g., remove the cap).  The easy PR would place Republicans on their defensive to avoid any semblance of actually cutting the program.

      But, no.  The White House came out forcefully for SS cuts and is at least initially trying to defend that position + sell it to Republicans - not all of whom have taken the bait and recoiled from the subject.  As we've read, there's already acceptance by some Republicans in D.C. for the proposal.

      President Obama has already set himself up to take the blame for future SS cuts, and therefore hurt the Democratic party branding + lend more fuel to the narrative that the two parties are almost exactly the same, which can only hurt our chances in future elections.

      Obama either got lost in the trees of the larger woods with his advisors or has simply made a horrendous choice (logically and politically) for helping to ensure SS's future.

      This is not starting well at all.  It's not appearing likely to end well, either.

      Obama lost it, this time - he really did.

      "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

      by wader on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 12:03:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  A Right Leaning Group, I Forget its Name (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SilentBrook

      has already told Walden to shut up with the leftist rhetoric about protecting the elderly from SS cuts. They said if the repugs have a chance to cut SS they need to take it.

      "The problem with posting quotes off the Internet is you never know if they're genuine."--Gen. George Washington at the Battle of Gettysburg, February 30, 1908

      by Aspe4 on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 01:15:06 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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