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View Diary: Some statistics on pie (163 comments)

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  •  i think jerome included ... (none)
    an incredibly important stat in the body of his diary in the chart labeled "Examples of Labor Market Segregation by Gender in the United States, 2000."

    even i was surprised to see the off-kilter numbers for specific occupations.

    if that chart doesn't prove that sexism is STILL alive and well in america, then i don't know what does.

    There are many who lust for the simple answers of doctrine or decree. They are on the left and right. They are terrorists of the mind. -- A. Bartlett Giamatti

    by FemiNazi on Wed Jun 08, 2005 at 06:42:08 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  I don't disagree that sexism exists (none)
      I can cite personal experiences, stories I've heard  and I've read better (although older) studies. The problem is that he threw in a completely bogus statistic which doesn't advance the argument at all.

      mcjoan did a much better diary on pay equity a few months ago as I recall, and she didn't throw in bogus, distracting statistics.

      If you want to advance a cause - any cause - you need to educate people and persuade them. If you've read the responses here and the responses at booman, you might have noticed some difference. People posting at booman have some understanding of the problem and rather uncritically accepted Jerome's graphs.

      People here lack an understanding of the problem from their own experience, and question the data, and with good reason - it provides an indication of the problem, but is a long way from being a positive proof or persuasive because the information is subject to interpretation.

      So I have two personal reactions. The first is that when I see bogus data, I question it, whether it's in support of something I believe or not. I think honesty and accuracy are more important in the long run than short term debating points won by deception or error.

      The second reaction is that this diary gave people here a chance to vent further against feminism and people at booman a chance to vent against kos/dKos. That's great for groups that want to sit around and kvetch. Maybe I'm missing the point - maybe the goal is just to sit and yell at each other and feel smug about it. I really think that was the point of this diary - it was to prove all the sexists at kos were wrong, not to advance a women's issue.

      This isn't a simple argument you make with a few broad datasets. I've had an ongoing argument with my wife about who does the most domestic work for 20 years (simple example - which gets more weight: time spent, undesirability of the task, or effort expended?). I also watched an attempt at equal pay legislation that I thought was quite good fail in WI in the 80s or early 90s.

      A sincere diary that's actually going to educate people or change their minds is going to be a lot more work than just posting a few graphs. You don't even know if there's really a problem (and again I think there is) until you know why women's pay lags, or why women end up in lower paying job categories - the graphs don't tell you that.

      It may reinforce what you already know or believe, but it isn't going to convince anyone that's skeptical.

      We all go a little mad sometimes - Norman Bates

      by badger on Wed Jun 08, 2005 at 11:20:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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