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View Diary: Thank You for Smoking?: The President's Pre-K Plan (114 comments)

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  •  It's a bad way to fund anything n/t (12+ / 0-)

    There already is class warfare in America. Unfortunately, the rich are winning.

    by Puddytat on Sun Apr 14, 2013 at 03:30:30 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Well, it is a good way to fund healthcare for (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dRefractor, JesseCW, ladybug53, lenzy1000

      smoking caused medical complications and conditions.
      Use it for treating chronic COPD, lung, mouth and throat cancers (or just all cancer of smokers), bad teeth of smokers etc.

      •  Who Then Pays For The Healthcare Costs..... (7+ / 0-)

        .....related to dementia and Alzheimer's?  That's where the real health care costs lie.  The average healthy weight nonsmoker runs up $100,000 more in lifetime health care costs than the average smoker.  Tobacco taxes merely tax people whose health care bill is the lowest while allowing those whose health care bill is the highest to pay nothing.  

      •  Use it for smoking cessation programs. (0+ / 0-)

        Use it for anti nicotine addiction education programs.

        Use it only for things we will need less and less of as smoking rates decline.

        dEar Ellois: U send Fud down holez, we no eaTz u. That iz deAl. No forget. MooRlockz Haz 2 eats. Stoopid Elloiz.

        by JesseCW on Sun Apr 14, 2013 at 08:21:38 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  So, are we sure that we are making reckless (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Cedwyn, Wood Dragon

        drivers fund healthcare for auto accident victims?  how about gun insurance so we are sure that gun owners are paying the full freight for the carnage caused by gun violence?  How about taxing purveyors of food laden with sugar, e.g. candy manufacturers, for the bad teeth of candy eaters, the obesity, the type-2 diabetes epidemic?  How about making sure that everyone who contributes to air pollution is paying their share of the air=pollution caused medical complications and conditions?  

        Let's trace very medical problem back to some person's bad behavior, because if you think about it, lots of medical problems are the result of some person's bad behavior (and remember, corporations are people) and then we can set up a billing system to make that person pick up the tab.  'Cause that's where this argument leads.

        The elevation of appearance over substance, of celebrity over character, of short term gains over lasting achievement displays a poverty of ambition. It distracts you from what's truly important. - Barack Obama

        by helfenburg on Mon Apr 15, 2013 at 03:31:21 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Well, we are picking on smokers here. (0+ / 0-)
          •  Yes, and I think, kind of stupidly and unfairly. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Lonely Liberal in PA

            Personally I think it's an example of scapegoating.

            The elevation of appearance over substance, of celebrity over character, of short term gains over lasting achievement displays a poverty of ambition. It distracts you from what's truly important. - Barack Obama

            by helfenburg on Mon Apr 15, 2013 at 03:44:27 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  It is (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Wood Dragon, qofdisks

              But it's socially acceptable scapegoating.

              Now if I told the fatties to put down the friggin' cupcake because I'm not paying for their Type 2 diabetes, I'd get lambasted (and probably will).

              That's not yet socially acceptable.  As a society, however, we're working on it.

              I'd claim slippery slope and argue that we can't project it that way...except that evidence already shows that we blame the victim in every circumstance as long as we can perceive some "personal failing" that makes the argument valid in our eyes.

              (-6.38, -7.03) Moderate left, moderate libertarian

              by Lonely Liberal in PA on Mon Apr 15, 2013 at 05:00:52 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Fortunately, second hand fat does not exist unlike (0+ / 0-)

                second hand smoke.

                You have watched Faux News, now lose 2d10 SAN.

                by Throw The Bums Out on Mon Apr 15, 2013 at 07:24:16 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Sure It Does...... (0+ / 0-)

                  The carcinogens produced from the grilling and frying of the food we eat poses a greater health risk than does secondhand smoke.  That comes straight from the 2006 Surgeon General's report entitled "No Safe Level of Secondhand Smoke".  Ever gone to a county or state fair and walked through the toxic haze from all the food vendors?  That's "secondhand fat" for all intents and purposes, and I promise you that if you're walking through one of those hazes you will certainly not be able to smell any cigarette smoker walking by as the smell of the grilled food is a thousand times more powerful.

                  If one is clever enough and self-serving enough, they can come up with a "secondhand" meme for just about anything....the same way they did with secondhand smoke a generation ago.

                •  Actually, per the most recent research, I think (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  qofdisks

                  it does.  In a society where lots of people are overweight, it becomes more socially acceptable, so the incidence increases.  

                  The elevation of appearance over substance, of celebrity over character, of short term gains over lasting achievement displays a poverty of ambition. It distracts you from what's truly important. - Barack Obama

                  by helfenburg on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 03:39:57 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  The habits are passed on to the next generation. (0+ / 0-)

                  Eaters enable each other.

              •  Problem is that we only blame some of the victims, (0+ / 0-)

                the ones we feel entitled to hate and blame generally for
                some reason totally unrelated to the problem.

                By the way many people who are not overweight still have type-2 diabetes.  

                As I said elsewhere, what about reckless drivers and the carnage they cause on the roadways?  What about alcoholics - there's a big one - lot of physical and mental issues caused by them.  What about gun violence?  What about polluters?

                And if we are looking for the person who should pay, why the vicitm?  Why not the person who profits from the victim's misery?  The candy manufacturers?  the tobacco companies?

                Why shouldn't they be the ones to pay?  They're the ones who profited.

                The elevation of appearance over substance, of celebrity over character, of short term gains over lasting achievement displays a poverty of ambition. It distracts you from what's truly important. - Barack Obama

                by helfenburg on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 03:39:00 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  Agreed. It is singling out one human addiction/ (0+ / 0-)

              compulsion over the myriad of others.  Picking on smokers is easy because it is hard to hide.

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