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View Diary: Daily Kos Labor digest: Why not apply the Teach for America model to other fields? (48 comments)

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  •  You asked.... (0+ / 0-)

    One out of 97 lawyers loses their license to practice law.

    One out of 57 doctors loses their license.

    The New York Daily News reports that “over the past three years [2007-2010], just 88 out of some 80,000 city schoolteachers have lost their jobs for poor performance.”

    Or look at Chicago - "only 0.1 percent of teachers were dismissed for performance-related reasons between 2005 and 2008. When barely one in four students nearing graduation can read and do math, how is it possible that only one in one thousand teachers is worthy of dismissal?"

    In ten years, only about 47 out of 100,000 teachers were actually terminated from New Jersey’s schools.

    Really?  

    •  Every year? (0+ / 0-)

      One out of 97 lawyers losing their license every year is 1.03%.
      One out of 57 doctors is 1.75%.

      That actually doesn't seem dramatically different from 1%.

      •  .... (0+ / 0-)

        Chicago: .1% between 2005-2008
        New Jersey: 47/100,000 in ten years
        New York: 88/88,000 2007-2010

        Again....this is not to demonize teachers...I am not trying to do that.  

        However, you really cannot consider teaching to be a "profession" unless you get rid of the deadwood....and come on, every profession has deadwood.

        Merit has to mean something.

        •  50% of teachers leave in the first (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Dr Erich Bloodaxe RN

          5 yrs of teaching. It's Darwinism at its best.

          No matter how cynical you get, it is impossible to keep up.--Lily Tomlin

          by Desert Rose on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 07:27:26 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It's terrible...I agree (0+ / 0-)

            Another reason why the perception, and the reality, of the profession needs to change.

            •  I think Desert Rose was pointing out that (0+ / 0-)

              the 'dead wood' in teaching is actually weeded out a lot more than in any other profession.  I don't think 50% of doctors, lawyers, electricians, etc, leave the field within the first 5 years.  The stats of people 'being removed' are way low because they're removing themselves if they can't hack it.

              •  Yeah... (0+ / 0-)

                I think that just underscores my main point.  It ain't a real profession with thank kind of turnover.

                •  Actually I think it completely reverses your (0+ / 0-)

                  logic.

                  Firs they weren't a 'real profession' because you said they didn't get rid of enough 'dead wood'.  then it was pointed out that it's actually a far tougher profession, and weeds out more than half of the people trying to get into it in the first 5 years, and so now they're not a 'real profession' because they brutally weed out those who aren't up to speed.

                  •  Really.....? (0+ / 0-)

                    "brutally weed out those who aren't up to speed."

                    Provide one shred of evidence that these people are fired or otherwise involuntarily terminated.   What a joke.

                    •  They don't have to be fired, they quit. (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Mostel26

                      A classroom is no playground.  It's tough, and the people who choose to go into the profession, are by and large the sort of people who want to do their job well.  When they can't, they leave the profession so as not to hurt it.

                      Personally, if lawyers and doctors had the same sense of responsibility to their professions, we'd have a lot fewer lawyers and doctors.

                      I don't understand your continued insistence that they have to be involuntarily cut, and that they shouldn't be expected to recognize it themselves when they're not up to standards and to simply leave the field.

                    •  Job postings (0+ / 0-)

                      If one simply looks at the number of job postings up each year for teaching positions and how many "pop up" mid-year, it is easy to see that there is significantly higher turnover than official "removals" from the data. A lot of teachers simply quit, aren't renewed from one year contracts, or get "asked" to find another profession rather than be officially denied tenure.

                      Here is one article that puts the turnover number at 8%.

                      8 % article

                      Also, significant levels of turnover negatively impact student achievement.

                      Turnover impact

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