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View Diary: Republicans embrace Social Security cuts they'll blame on Obama (294 comments)

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    •  I assume you will vote for a third party or not (8+ / 0-)

      vote at all.  Voting for a Republcian would be an absurd action.  

      Would you vote agaisnt Elizabeth Warren bcause she is a Democrat and there is collective guilt?

      I am fine with witholding votes, even in a general election, from those who vote for chained cpi.  I disagree, however, with opposing progressive Dems who oppose this policy.  

      Join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news and views written from a black pov—everyone is welcome.

      by TomP on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 09:23:36 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Really? (18+ / 0-)

        I can't say now exactly what I'll do.  It might make a difference if the Progressive Caucus absolutely goes to war over this and embarrasses the Democratic Party and Obama for their betrayal.  I mean SERIOUS outrage not pretending for a few weeks before caving.

        But basically I'm fed up.  I've had it.  Democrats won every single office on my ballot in November.  I've got two Democratic Senators and neither one will get out front on this and strongly and emphatically oppose this.   So the first person who is going to be held accountable by me is Senator Franken.  For sure.  You betcha.  

        I am just outraged.  I have been for months.  I've been ranting on nothing else.  I saw it coming.  I don't think this is the last of it and if we don't stand up now, when will we?  On what issue?  

        They've just totally crossed a line with me.  They've abandoned their commitment to Social Security and Medicare.  No one could tell you where the Democratic Party stands on either today.  

        So voting for Republicans is worse?  I'm not even totally sure that on this issue it is.  I mean they need older voters and Obama and his surrogates seem to think it is totally cute to diss an entire generation, "you can't always get what you want" and all that b.s.    They can't even make cuts without insulting us.

        In any case, the Democratic Party has now positioned itself where you cannot even tell if it is the lesser evil.

        •  Yes, voting for Republicans is worse. (9+ / 0-)

          It's your vote.  Do with it as you wish.

          Join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news and views written from a black pov—everyone is welcome.

          by TomP on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 10:23:46 AM PDT

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          •  I'm not going to become a Republican (9+ / 0-)

            I'm just saying I might get even.  I will not walk into the polls and vote to affirm these cuts.  If the rest of my voting life consists of nothing but voting the bums out, that might be the best I can do.   It's not like 45 years of voting for the Democrats has guaranteed my retirement security.  They don't seem to give a damn.

            •  That's fine. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              Take care.

              Join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news and views written from a black pov—everyone is welcome.

              by TomP on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 10:34:48 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Here's why (5+ / 0-)

              The lobbying system.  It has nothing to do with Democrats being Democrats.  So long as we fight against the lobbying system and remove the strange hold (i.e. demanding a minimum of a one year moratorium or ban on all lobbying to members of Congress), then at least we can be able to allow the Democrats we elect to be able to communicate with constituents rather than lobbying groups.

              The problem is, lobbying has a strange hold on democracy because the system which it stands now, even with past lobbying rules underway during the 2007-2008 years, still is flawed and members of Congress are getting pressured by lobbying groups (i.e. pro-gun Democrats) like the NRA and others to vote a certain way on a piece of legislation.  The job of Congress is to serve constituents, not lobbying groups.  Lobbying groups do have a dialog to play in the process but telling a Congressman or Senator to vote a certain way or else suffer no campaign contributions is putting a strange hold on democracy.

              And your argument seems to be missing a few things:  Senators Jeff Merkley, Tom Udall, Elizabeth Warren, three very progressive U.S. Senators who are fighting the chained CPI and are real fighters so perhaps you may want to communicate with them rather than threatening on not voting or thinking Democrats don't give a damn.  I'm a progressive Democrat and I continue on with my fight.  We've got more progressives in Congress now than even in years and they're continuing to fight.

              Also, even if chained CPI is passed, it can still be repealled

              I'll be DAMNED if we Democrats don't fire our base up in 2014 and defeat the GOP.  If this doesn't happen, I blame us on Daily Kos and others in the progressive community more than I blame the people in Congress.  I've lived through 2004 when John Kerry didn't get elected president and the progressive base wasn't as fired up but you know, that was basically a vote for four more years of Bush in office and screwing up the U.S. even more.  Then of course 2010 came and the Democrats had the worse PR campaign on the Affordable Health Care Act and did not fight hard enough against the Tea Party.  We lost Russ Feingold, one of our greatest progressive heroes who would fight with Jeff Merkley, Tom Udall and Elizabeth Warren against chained CPI today.  Feingold lost the election to Mr. Dickhead U.S. Senator Ron Johnson (aka the man who couldn't even complete his MBA degree due to not finishing his thesis). We can't afford another 2004 or 2010.

              We need to start fighting now and by that, we need to continue focusing on getting more Democrats elected and particularly defeating more GOP in Congress.  You don't want to fight?  Good.  That means more brain dead GOP being elected and our democracy failing.

              •  Repealed, oh yeah, like the 80's cuts (5+ / 0-)

                I am fighting now.  I am fighting against these cuts and I will definitely hold any party that passes them accountable.

                If Senator Franken wants my vote in 2014, he'll stop them.  It's his choice.   I mean he's doesn't have to pass anything new.  He doesn't need 60 votes.  All he has to do is defend the status quo and stop this budget proposal from being enacted.  

                •  80's cuts? (0+ / 0-)

                  What on earth are you talking about?  I'm talking about lobbying.

                  •  You said it could be repealed (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    denise b, Paper Cup, Patango

                    That's a fantasy.  Let me cut your Social Security benefits now and I'll repeal the cuts later.   Ah, no.  I'm old, I'm not cognitively impaired.

                    I mean if the Democrats want to show me they really care, why don't they repeal the 80's deal that raised the retirement age for Boomers?  But I am not asking for that.  I'm just saying you already screwed me in that deal and that is the last time you get away with it.  You can do it.  I will not vote for you if you do.

                    •  Wait just a second (0+ / 0-)

                      I'm talking about LOBBYING.  You can't repeal lobbying.  Put a moratorium or ban on lobbying.  Repealing means you're repealing previous pieces of legislation.

                      I think you're getting way too carried away on cuts for social security and not understanding exactly what I'm talking about here.

                      Lobbying is an issue completely separate from social security and such.  However, it does have a strange hold on how Democrats and GOP run things.  Ever note how difficult it is to even get a piece of reasonable gun control laws passed?

                      What's the reason?  You guessed it, lobbying groups like the NRA breathing down Congress's neck.

                      But what we need to make sure is that lobbying doesn't control Congress.  Congress is above lobbying.  That's what needs to be in the argument and if we can translate it into reality, then maybe we don't need to deal with the DLC or beltway Democrats anymore as much.

                      It's like 2009 and 2010 didn't exist and we didn't have the Wall Street Reform, the Affordable Health Care Act, the prevention of an additional Great Depression and the auto industry bailout.

                      •  I will vote on the Social Security benefit cuts (6+ / 0-)

                        That will impact me every month for the rest of my life.  People vote on different issues.  I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but I do want the Democratic Party to know that this is the 3rd rail for me, and there is NOTHING else that they can or will do that will make up for them deliberately, callously, deceitfully, arrogantly, cutting my Social Security benefits FOREVER.  

                        I will remember this at every election for the rest of my life.  I'm not saying what I will do forever, but I am saying that I will vote on this and this alone in 2014 and 2016.  

                        I am mad as hell.  I feel totally betrayed.  I don't trust them not to make more cuts if they get away with this.  I have no idea where the party stands anymore.  

                        •  I don't feel betrayed (0+ / 0-)

                          The lobbying system is what's putting a strange hold on this process.  If it didn't have such a strange hold, guess what?  Democrats would be winning elections a lot easier and we wouldn't even be in this business of having to fight these seemingly endless battles against the GOP.

                          I mean, yes, Social Security cuts are terrible and as a progressive Democrat from Berkeley, California, I'm always going to fight against chained CPI and anything else that cuts Social Security.  I may be coming from a different profession or industry than you are but I also recognize that I also have IRAs, 401k accounts, mutual funds, etc.  Those are an opinion but of course, Social Security is the ultimate safety net for all Americans that prevents a lot of poverty.

                          And a point to make:  The cuts have not been done yet so there's still fighting power to be done.  President Obama can present his budget but the House and Senate needs to still vote on it.  That's what's known as checks and balances.

                          I hope you're not listening to Jill Stein here.  There are lots of Democrats inside Congress and outside of Congress who are going to support you.  The AARP is 100% against chained CPI.  


                          In addition, the AFL-CIO is 100% against the Chained CPI so that's a large percentage of union representatives (who the Democrats depend on a lot for votes) that any Democratic Congressman/Congresswoman or Senator will feel the wrath off and get defeated for re-election if say they vote for the budget as it contains chained CPI.  Keep in mind also we're dealing with a divided Congress where the GOP has the control over the House of Representatives

                          And you might as well start calling the White House and vent your frustration there so they hear an additional voice, rather than spending time on Daily Kos.  Every additional angry constituent needs to be heard by the White House:

                          Comments: 202-456-1111
                          Switchboard: 202-456-1414

                          You can also contact Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid's Office Line:  (202) 224-3542

                          Or Dick Durbin's Office Line:  (202) 224-2152

                          Or Nancy Pelosi's Office Line:  (202) 225-4965


                          •  A Berkeley Progressive is a bit of cliche (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:

                            And one with 401K, IRA's and mutual funds too.  

                            You might want to seek out a waitress in Stockton or somewhere and see how losing $650 a year in Social Security benefits is going to work out.

                        •  I'm not exactly happy myself (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          Just Bob

                          As a federal retiree, I'll get double the cuts. Have been taking cuts for the past three years already. And I didn't go along with the corruption...I fought it. That cost me financially, too. But, vote Republican...not even in my dreams.

                      •  You keep mentioning the lobbying (corruption) (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:

                        While at the same time, Obama is signing a bill that destroys the anti-corruption ban on congressional insider trading.

                        Democrats are not better on this, and we have already lost it. But at least we still have social security left....for now.

                        Anybody who tries to grab the third rail must be burned.

                •  Voting Republican won't make it better (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Thomas Twinnings

                  Both parties are in the clutches of lobbyists on this issue. Would voting Republican be worse? I think so--mainly because lobbyists would take that as a mandate to push more aggressively on these issues; like stepping on the plutocracy gas pedal.

                  Yeah, frustrating. But, here's some hope.

              •  "blame us on Daily Kos"? (4+ / 0-)

                I think 30+ years of DLC, New Democrats, and Third Way have something to do with our current situation.

                At what point in the continuing rightward movement will you no longer support the Democratic Party? Where do you draw the line? Why do we settle for a false choice of center right or far right? Where is the balance of a two party political system?

                Others have simply gotten old. I prefer to think I've been tempered by time.

                by Just Bob on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 12:39:20 PM PDT

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            •  Why on earth would you want your civic will (0+ / 0-)

              to be counted in favor of Republicans?

              Nose, face, spite...

              Seriously... WTF!?

              Are you thinking, at all? No offense intended...

              If you are not going to vote for the guy who is supposed to give voice and policy to your values then you have to vote for someone who actually does represent your beliefs.

              I would think that to have your vote counted as supporting Republican values would be about the worst thing that could happen to a passionate progressive.


              Democracy - 1 person 1 vote. Free Markets - More dollars more power.

              by k9disc on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 11:33:43 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  My values oppose Social Security benefit (5+ / 0-)

                cuts, so of course, I would have to vote against any party that enacts Social Security benefit cuts.  

                •  So you'll vote for the party who has made them (0+ / 0-)

                  a possibility through massive propaganda and have your vote be tallied in support of Republican values?

                  The opposite of a reward is not punishment, it's a removal of the reward.

                  You would not be accomplishing anything by voting for a Republican except for making them more powerful and more able to enact policy.


                  Democracy - 1 person 1 vote. Free Markets - More dollars more power.

                  by k9disc on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 12:13:29 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Oh, retribution is a value as well (5+ / 0-)

                    I believe in payback.  I believe that when you give your vote to a party for 45 years and their response is to wait till you qualify for Social Security and then cut your benefits and they can't even be satisfied with that, they have to send out surrogates to snark, "You can't always get what you want..." like they have total contempt for your and your generation.

                    Well, Democrats, you can't always get what you want either.  You can't have my vote if you cut my Social Security benefits.

                  •  Democrats can be more successful in cutting SS (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    splashoil, Patango, k9disc

                    Because there is nobody left to fight them.  
                    Wen republicans try to cut it themselves, the Dems fight them on it.

                    Moreover, if SS is going to be cut, it might as well be by them, not us.  They should get the blame.  They should lose generations of voters.  

                    Finally, our party is the one that might be able to go back to doing what we want if hurting us causes them to lose elections. I have no hope for the republicans to learn anything good from losses.

        •  "held accountable by me is Senator Franken" (0+ / 0-)

          That will work well, getting a Republican to replace Franken.

          Now greenbell is likely to see sense but the way to punish a party for failure to deliver is to vote for the other party or stay at home.

          I await explanations about how 2014 will be different from the clever people who delivered 2010.

        •  I am a strong progressive but I AM NOT (0+ / 0-)

          a democrat. The Democratic Party, from the very beginning of its existence, was built solely around the idea of winning political office. They were almost apolitical in the sense that any two Democrats in the country during the Jackson Presidency could not be counted on, at all, to have anything close to similar views. Anyone who has a knowledge of the history of Andrew Jackson, especially Martin Van Buren, and that whole historical era, already knows this. And they never changed. Well, I take that back. FDR actually did manage to give the Democratic Party some values other than "get elected no matter what". It's bad for someone to be too much of an ideologue. Its just as bad to have no values or principles whatsoever other than do or say whatever it takes to keep my office. The democratic party is nothing but a tool for me, a vehicle to express my policy views and hopefully see some of them enacted. When that tool becomes completely useless I throw it away like any other. Party loyalty is absurd and weak-minded. People should be loyal to their values and principles, and no, that does not mean being an extreme ideologue.

      •  I'll support Third Party (5+ / 0-)

        And independents. This vote is my line in the sand.

        It is an old strategy of tyrants to delude their victims into fighting their battles for them. FDR

        by Betty Pinson on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 05:03:25 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I will blame Obama (8+ / 0-)

      And any Dems who don't go on record as clearly opposing cuts.

      I will not vote for any Dem who supports these cuts.

      It is an old strategy of tyrants to delude their victims into fighting their battles for them. FDR

      by Betty Pinson on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 05:01:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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