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View Diary: Republicans embrace Social Security cuts they'll blame on Obama (294 comments)

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  •  Depends on (9+ / 0-)

    the peoples view? /snark

     photo Obamayoudidn2527tfactcheckthat.jpg

    Social Security Concern Trolls' Math Problem

    Pfffft.  They will go to no ends for Mr. Dreamy.


    Move Single Payer Forward? Join 18,000 Doctors of PNHP and 185,000 member National Nurses United

    by divineorder on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 09:34:43 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  It saddens me (7+ / 0-)

      that folks over there have willingly circumscribed the debate concerning Social Security thus: "It's better for a Democratic President to propose these things because it'd be worse if a Republican got to do it."

      That is to say, the entire spectrum of choices regarding Social Security oscillates between (1) doing nothing and accepting meager-at-best retirement benefits- with the threat of future cuts ever looming and (2) reducing those already-pathetic-by-world-standards benefits and considering it a victory for the party that initiated Social Security to begin with.

      Nowhere on the People's View Website is there any discussion of expanding retirement benefits, of finding a way to stabilize the system for the indefinite future. It is a curious "Progressive" world they inhabit, where a modestly comfortable retirement, funded by the whole society, is not even worthy of discussion.

      Instead, it's cheerleading and hope that 401(k)s will somehow redeem the President's worldview.

    •  I guess it is a hurtful thing that other sites (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Beetwasher, joe from Lowell

      and other Democrats disagree with your point of view. "Let me ridicule other Democrats because I just can't stand that they haven't joined my daily 'Obama/wrong' glee club."

      By the way, your "Mr. Dreamy", as you so mockingly refer to the President, will come out on top on this issue.

      Already he has the Republicans totally confused, where one day they're praising the President for his balanced approach and condemning one of their own for attacking the President on the issue and another day they are claiming the cuts aren't deep enough.

      They do not have a consistently clear narrative on the President and I dare them to run on this in 2014. I wonder what that would sound like:

      We as Republicans have always wanted to cut Social Security and Medicare.

      We have put forth budgets such as that championed by Paul Ryan to turn social programs like Medicare into a voucher program.

      We have always demanded that the President addressed Social Security and Medicare in any negotiations before we decide to let the country move forward obstruction free.

      President Obama has adjusted the Consumer Price Index as part of our demand to work out a deal and therefore....

      It is Democrats who cut Social Security, vote for us!!

      And voters will buy all of this???

      Sure…just as they bought it in 2012 when this type of nonsensical argument failed big time and Barack Obama shellacked Willard Mitt Romney.

      Yes, your "Mr. Dreamy" will continue to be viewed as the President that as done the most for Democrats in generations and a popular historic figure nationally and internationally, while you continue to be relegated to writing snide comments about him online as "Mr. Dreamy".

      You so drole....

      •  Indeed he has the Republicans totally confused (5+ / 0-)

        And everyone else.

        No one knows where the Democratic Party stands on Social Security and Medicare.  It's seem clear they've abandoned their commitment to both and their support is extremely contingent and vague and likely to be different tomorrow than it is today.  We can assume these are just the beginning of cuts to come, but we can't know because they continue to deliberately deceive us on their intentions.  

        The policy change is bad enough but the deceit and contempt they've shown for older Americans is astounding and something I never thought I would see in my lifetime.

        •  Democrats have not shown "deceit and contempt" (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Beetwasher, joe from Lowell

          for older Americans, stop spreading this ridiculously false meme! It is outrageous!

          Democrats created Social Security and Medicare, to protect the poor, Democrats passed a historic healthcare law that will benefit the elderly and poor, Democrats have proposed billions of dollars to fund programs that will feed the elderly and the poor.

          Republicans! Republicans are against the elderly and the poor. It is amazing to see many individuals on this site pushing the meme that Democrats are against the elderly, just because they resent the President, and loudly suggesting that Republicans will have the integrity to run against Democrats on wanting to cut Social Security.

          Do most people here honestly believe that by pushing this nonsensical contention Democrats will be able to win in 2014?  Or do we actually want democrats to lose? What is really going on here? Has this site gone batty?

          To be honest, Democrats have been using this argument more than Republicans. There has been one Republican of note who came out attacking the President for adjusting the Consumer Price Index and he has received pushback by Republicans and even threats of being primaried.

          Yet Democrats keep stating: "Republicans can attack us on wanting to end Social Security."

          If Democrats believe Republicans have the stuffing to do this, why shouldn't Republicans? They read the blogs too.

          Your comment is offensive, and it is something every Democrat should take exception to. This unbelievable.

          •  I see you are selling the poverty program meme (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            TheUnknown285, PALiberal1

            Middle class Americans do not pay the payroll tax for 45 years so their money can be given to the poor.  

            If Democrats don't need votes from the middle class, it's a winner.  

            •  Stop pushing your anti-Democratic Party arguments (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              You may not like the Democratic Party, but women, minorities, immigrants, gays, students, the elderly, all benefit from the Democratic party. You may not like the Democratic party but they do.  

              •  How am I benefitting from the Democratic Party? (0+ / 0-)

                Ive got $40,000 in student loans. How did they help me? Because it seems to me that you have to be rich to go to college without getting into massive debt and the Democrats havent done a damn thing about it.

            •  By the way you are also amazingly anti-poor in (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              so many of your comments. And the same people who talk day-in-day-out about Obama's give aways to the banks are recommending your anti-poor diatribe.


              •  I am anti-LIES (0+ / 0-)

                I am anti any administration that dangles the poor in front of your eyes to distract you while they steal your Social Security benefits behind your back.  

                And women, immigrants, minorities are those who will be most adversely impacted by these lying cuts.  The very people who have not had the opportunity to inherit or accumulate wealth but who have as Obama soooo loves to say "worked hard and played by the rules".  That is who these cuts are target aimed at - every working class American who "worked hard and played by the rules".

                •  Yet your comment focuses on your resentment that (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:

                  the poor is taking from the middle class. Or that Democrats are taking from the middle class to give to the poor. It is quite strange.

                  •  Strange that I would resent having my (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Cynical at Best

                    Social Security benefits cut?  That just seems perfectly pragmatic and normal to me.  

                    A political party is not a charity.  A political party's purpose is to represent voters and deliver the goods to the voters who support the party.   The purpose is not to take from the voter and give to someone else.  That's what the opposition party does.  When your party starts acting like the opposition party, then you're social contract with your political party is at an end.  

                    •  I don't think the Democrats are taking from the (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:

                      middle class and give to the poor. With all due respect, I've heard people on the Right pushing this meme. I disagree with them when they push it and I disagree with you that this is happening. This sounds like bashing the poor to me and it is a distasteful argument.

              •  That's a serious stretch (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Laconic Lib

                "anti-poor"--maybe you should go back and re-read the comment?

                The subject of the post refers to the first sentence:

                the poverty program meme (2+ / 0-)

                Middle class Americans do not pay the payroll tax for 45 years so their money can be given to the poor.

                The poverty program meme IS that "middle class Americans do not pay the payroll tax for 45 years so their money can be given to the poor".  I don't think you read it correctly if it's your position that greenbell is pushing that meme.

                You, OTOH, are pushing this garbage:

                To be honest, Democrats have been using this argument more than Republicans
                You can surely be more specific, hm? Exactly which Democrats are you referring to?

                And if "so many" are pushing it, how does it make all of them wrong and little old you right?

                "The “Left” is NOT divided on the need to oppose austerity and the Great Betrayal. The Third Way is not left or center or even right. It is Wall Street on the Potomac."--Bill Black

                by lunachickie on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 01:30:58 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  What exactly are you saying to me? Are you telling (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:

                  me that you and a number of people in this community aren't pushing the argument that Republicans are going to attack Democrats from the left on Social Security? You all claim to be Democrats. If you aren't let it be known. but don't tell me that this hasn't been the meme for many days now.

                  And if you agree with your cohort that Democrats are robbing from the middleclass to give to the poor and begin a doctrine of scapegoating the poor then that is you and your cohort’s affair. But it is distasteful and the same argument is used by the right.

                  I don't believe the Democratic Party is help by starting a war between the poor and the middle class. He believes the Democratic Party is also against the Elderly. What kind of propagana is that? Since you are here defending him, you no doubt believe the same thing, which is an amazing assertion to make of the party which recently passed a healthcare law, which seniors are benefitting from around the country.

                  Very strange.

                  •  No (0+ / 0-)

                    I'm saying you didn't read that comment correctly.

                    Nothing strange about it.

                    "The “Left” is NOT divided on the need to oppose austerity and the Great Betrayal. The Third Way is not left or center or even right. It is Wall Street on the Potomac."--Bill Black

                    by lunachickie on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 04:56:55 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

      •  OMG "Obama has the Republicans totally confused" (7+ / 0-)

        Oh thank gawd.

        Yes, and how disrespectful for them to use the term "Mr. Dreamy".

        Because anyone who
        1) Gives away trillions to Banksters, no strings attached
        2) Makes permanent 99.3% of the Bush Tax Cuts for the Rich.
        3) Drags on endless pointless wars to feed the MIC
        4) Then screws me out of my earned SS benefits to pay for it all.

        Yeah that person deserves all the respect I can muster. Which is to say , NO RESPECT.

        Obama Style Justice: Make 99% of Bush Tax Cuts Permanent. Then cut Senior's Social Security to pay for it. Hey Grandma, F#@K YOU!

        by CitizenOfEarth on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 10:56:35 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I have heard the whole unending Bankster refrain (0+ / 0-)

          so often, that I think all you bankster folk should get together and put the lyrics to Super Bowl teams of old.

          I can see you all now, rapping about Obama and giveaways to banks...and having the record die in a couple days after its release. But I know, for a brief unforgettable moment, it will be fine entertainment.


          •  Useless reply showing a total lack of a cogent (0+ / 0-)

            response on your part, because there is no credible response. The banking industry OWNS our government. Explain to me how that is wrong considering they crashed our economy and yet Obama frequently meets with them to get their advice and Congressional committees in both houses frequently meet with to ask what they think about things. They nearly destroyed our economy and probably delivered the death blow to the middle class but even democrats are still asking for their opinion???? Take a look at politifacts obama promise rater, go to the one for helping out folks who are getting foreclosed on, and then take a look at the source for their article. It is an extensive investigation into the mortgage refinancing program that was supposed to help millions but ended up helping a few thousand thanks to the interference that Tim Geitner ran for the banks in his post as Treasury Secretary, a post Obama appointed him to. Ridiculous.

      •  Right! If by "totally confused" you mean (4+ / 0-)

        chortling with glee over the prospect of getting "entitlement" cuts they're long wanted AND posing to their working constituents as the last defenders of SS.

        When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill...

        by PhilJD on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 11:05:51 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  What exactly has President Obama done again? (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TheUnknown285, Laconic Lib, PhilK

        Sure, as I have noted before, he has done some good for some social issues but the corporate elite do not care about gay issues or abortion.

        Did President Obama give us universal healthcare or a republican healthcare plan?

        Are guns more or less restricted than when he took office?

        Who has recovered from the economic meltdown, the working class or the very rich?

        How many liberals has the POTUS appointed and successfully gotten confirmed?  Even when there was a Democratic house and senate?

        How many Wall Street executive have been tried for criminal wrong doing?  How many whistleblowers?

        How about things he can do without congressional support like:

        Declassifying marajuana from a schedule 1 narchotic to a schedule 3.

        When the TARP money started being repaid, he had a wide latitude to use it as he saw fit but did he use it to help homeowners?  Unemployed?

        I can continue if you like, but I think this makes my point.  Would you care to show me where President Obama has championed anything that would not set well with Wall Street?  Dodd/Frank is DOA, the consumer protection department is unfunded and toothless, the mortgage refinance program he heralded was a joke.  

        Show me what President Obama has actually done to help average people.  Of course, he does talk a good game.

        Please do not say that he would if it were not for those mean republicans.  I think I would rather think of him as a traitor than a pathetic wimp completely inept and too stupid to stand up for his country.  I would rather believe that I was lied to as opposed to thinking I misjudged his character so badly.

        "Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following pages, are not YET sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favour..."

        by Buckeye Nut Schell on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 11:08:10 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  "What has President Obama done again?" Hey... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          I point you to: the Center for Legislative Archives. You can find it in the National Archives Building...

          There you will find a whole voluminous list of President Barack Obama's legislative accomplishments, signed and preserved for history. Check it out. It will be helpful to you.

          •  Is that the list (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Laconic Lib

            that shows stuff that's in the current budget, which hasn't been passed (only proposed)? Or is that the list which lists everything this President ever signed, even if they weren't "his ideas" or "his legislation" to start with?

            And really, can you dial back the pompous in your rhetoric just a little bit? You sound all scold-y...

            "The “Left” is NOT divided on the need to oppose austerity and the Great Betrayal. The Third Way is not left or center or even right. It is Wall Street on the Potomac."--Bill Black

            by lunachickie on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 01:34:36 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Why don't you check the list for yourselves? See (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              here is the thing, if you find it in the list the Federal Government and Congress put it there and credited the President for passing it. Quarrel with them.

              In terms of Obama just adding his name to stuff that he had nothing to do with. I suppose the Obama healthcare law that you all criticize Obama on every day is named "Obama (didn't pass me) care" and not "Obamacare." It's named Obamacare because Obama tricked people into calling it so.

              By the way in terms of my pomposity, I really can't help it since my pomposity has to be big enough to crawl over the pomposity and screaming screeds coming from you folk. After all, the "hell no!" on a thousand diaries hit just the right tone of moderation.

              •  Stop lumping people together and painting (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Cynical at Best

                with such a broad brush.

                Your pomposity isn't going to win you any converts, either. And you need them--clearly, there are more of Us People than there are of you, if there were "a thousand diaries" yelling HELL NO.

                A lot of Democrats damned well mean that. You may want to keep that in mind next time.

                "The “Left” is NOT divided on the need to oppose austerity and the Great Betrayal. The Third Way is not left or center or even right. It is Wall Street on the Potomac."--Bill Black

                by lunachickie on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 05:00:29 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I feel simply disagreeing with the President, (0+ / 0-)

                  if that is the case, is enough. I sometimes find it hard to listen to individuals who are trying to outshout each other in making a show of who can be outraged the most, and for that matter, who has the most clever put down of the "evil" Obama as some of your cohorts term  the President.

                  On the issue of chained CPI I understand that there are real concerns and I respect that. Just as I respect the idea of disagreeing with the President without demonizing the President or the Democratic Party as the individual you are defending who characterize Democrats as having contempt for the elderly, huh??

                  I have interacted with a number of individuals who have disagreed with the President in respectful ways because they engage in conversations instead of condemnations of the entire Democratic Party.

      •  Says who, you? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Laconic Lib
         I guess it is a hurtful thing that other sites (2+ / 0-)

        and other Democrats disagree with your point of view.

        There's a relative handful of you who keep insisting this, yet you're just not loud enough to drown out all the dismay, are you? Try harder next time!


        "The “Left” is NOT divided on the need to oppose austerity and the Great Betrayal. The Third Way is not left or center or even right. It is Wall Street on the Potomac."--Bill Black

        by lunachickie on Tue Apr 16, 2013 at 01:24:22 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Indeed. (0+ / 0-)

        "ure…just as they bought it in 2012 when this type of nonsensical argument failed big time and Barack Obama shellacked Willard Mitt Romney."

        Ok, we were wrong, his positioning got him reelected so now he can pursue progressive policies. But he's not, is he? He's doing more position taking. When does the position taking stop and the promoting progressive policies start? Im waiting for that part of the movie, but the first part seems to be on infinite repeat...

    •  That site is hilarious (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Cynical at Best

      Obama could slaughter dozens of children and kittens on live television and they'd find some way to rationalize it into making him awsum. I don't think the owner of that blog has ever had a disagreement with Obama on anything, ever. He is an Infallible Deity.

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