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View Diary: Anti-Chechen Racism Unbridled (152 comments)

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  •  Violence begets violence (11+ / 0-)

    I do not excuse ANYONE, least of all these pathetic two men who damaged the lives of so many for God knows what reason.

    But thank you for highlighting the struggles and tribulations of this tiny region of the old and new Russian empire.

    Note:  if Bush had been in charge these two men would not have been caught for ten years, while he spent two trillion dollars and 100,000 lives invading Iran.  All on the pretext that Iran is near where these two men were born, Iran has massive oil reserves, and Iran has a virulently anti-American government.

    •  PS Its not anti Chechen RACISM (4+ / 0-)
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      jj24, WheninRome, ehavenot, Alice Olson

      Chechens are not a race.  It's xenophobia or religious prejudice or whatever you want to call it, but let's be careful with our use of language.  It does matter.

      •  Well they're an ethnic group, right? (1+ / 0-)
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        kyril
      •  I'm not sure what you're talking about. (9+ / 0-)

        If you're talking about what I think you're talking about, then the definition only really applies only in the US where race = skin color, essentially.

        Let me say that bigotry and racism are separate things. Bigotry is when someone as an individual acts on or believes hateful things about a member of a separate ethnicity. Racism is harm caused to a minority or disenfranchised ethnic group by an empowered ethnic group.

        That's how the rest of the world defines race, and that's how racism is experienced in the rest of the world. So yes, how the Russians treat Chechens is racist. How the media is treating Chechen history is racist. When Germanic Angles invaded Ireland under Cromwell and enslaved or ethnically cleansed a portion of the Celtic Gael population, it was racist.

        There are problems with any definition of race that defines any skin color as a cohesive and culturally distinct entity. It creates a parasitic concept of race that is a threat to the cultures and identities of almost everyone. Jamaicans are distinct from Haitians are distinct from Nigerians. Irish are distinct from Italians are distinct from the English. Japanese people are distinct from Koreans, are distinct from the Chinese.

        Check the Wikipedia page, and you'll see how these definitions feud with each other.

        So yes, language does matter. Yes it absolutely does. And I think that this is racism. I think it fits the definition I gave earlier.

        I'd love to engage you in discussion on this.

        An Fhirinn an aghaidh an t'Saoghail. (The truth against the world.) Is treasa tuath na tighearna. (The common people are mightier than the lords.)

        by OllieGarkey on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 07:07:04 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  So Ollie (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          OllieGarkey

          should I be surprised when next week congress wants to declare war on Chechenya?
          But wait! I'll bet you that somewhere in Chechenya there is someone that is Iranian or of Iranian descent. Therefore we can get a twofer and declare war on Iran as well!
          But wait! We KNOW that somewhere in Iran is someone that knows someone from North Korea or maybe there's an actual North Korean in Iran!

          A trifecta!!

          "If fighting for a more equal and equitable distribution of the wealth of this country is socialistic, I stand guilty of being a socialist." Walter Reuther

          by fugwb on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 07:28:34 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Like you said, "language counts" (0+ / 0-)

          We are one species.  The very concept of different "races" is one rooted in false thinking that divides rather than unites folks.  The idea that we are different "races" comes from Victorian times when there was a benefit for those defining others to call us "the white race, the yellow race, the black race, etc."  Some races were easily subjugated and exploited by other races and the idea of lesser "races" and  these classifications made it made it easy to do.

          I totally aree with what you say:

          There are problems with any definition of race that defines any skin color as a cohesive and culturally distinct entity. It creates a parasitic concept of race that is a threat to the cultures and identities of almost everyone.
          However, This quote from Wikipedia is also relevant.  
          While biologists sometimes use the concept of race to make distinctions among fuzzy sets of traits, others in the scientific community suggest that the idea of race often is used[4] in a naive[5] or simplistic way, i.e. that among humans, race has no taxonomic significance: all living humans belong to the same species, Homo sapiens and subspecies, Homo sapiens sapiens.[6][7]

          Social conceptions and groupings of races vary over time, involving folk taxonomies [8] that define essential types of individuals based on perceived traits. Scientists consider biological essentialism obsolete,[9] and generally discourage racial explanations for collective differentiation in both physical and behavioral traits.[5][10][11][12][13]

          Since the second half of the 20th century the associations of race with the ideologies and theories that grew out of the work of 19th-century anthropologists and physiologists has led to the use of the word race itself becoming problematic. Although still used in general contexts, it is now often replaced by other words which are less ambiguous and emotionally charged, such as populations, people(s), ethnic groups or communities depending on context.[14][15]

          So, I understand what you say and say mahalo for your thoughtful reply but I still think that if folks were more careful to use less ambiguous more precise and accurate words their own words would carry more precise meaning.
          •  So there's no such thing as Racism? (0+ / 0-)

            Being that race is imaginary, is racism too also something imaginary?

            Is the argument that you're making that racism cannot exist because race is imaginary?

            Races may not exist in the biological sense, and to that point I completely agree, but does it follow that ethnic hatred, to which we give the word "racism" is nonexistent?

            An Fhirinn an aghaidh an t'Saoghail. (The truth against the world.) Is treasa tuath na tighearna. (The common people are mightier than the lords.)

            by OllieGarkey on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 12:22:12 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Sorry, you misunderstand the point .... (0+ / 0-)

              You might notice that it is called "ethnic cleansing" not "racial cleansing" when one ethnic group kills another.  

              And when religious intolerance blossoms into war or killing it is called religious hatred, not racism.  To mix it all together in one big emotionally charged and incorrect term serves no purpose except to arouse similar actions and responses.

              Words.  Remember what Wikipedia said: words mean.  

              concept of race.........Although still used in general contexts, it is now often replaced by other words which are less ambiguous and emotionally charged, such as populations, people(s), ethnic groups or communities depending on context.[14][15]
              Try it, and see if it makes your thinking more critical and less emotional.
              •  I was just asking questions because I didn't (0+ / 0-)

                understand your point. I'm still kind of mystified by what you're saying. I already know all about scientific racism, and that skin color

                So in my calculation, "race" is just another word for ethnic group.

                And I'm not feeling anything at all except slightly confused.

                Are you saying that we should get rid of the word racism? If so, come out and say that.

                Try spelling things out a bit clearer, because I don't know what you're trying to say here.

                I already accept that race is an artificial construct. Are you talking about replacing the word "Racism" with the term "Ethnic Hatred?"

                An Fhirinn an aghaidh an t'Saoghail. (The truth against the world.) Is treasa tuath na tighearna. (The common people are mightier than the lords.)

                by OllieGarkey on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 01:27:33 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

        •  Racism is a belief system based on the idea (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Be Skeptical

          that races exist, and secondly that some are superior to others.

          One need not have a bit of power to be a racist or embrace racism.

          I love you stupid fucking fucks. Now stop poking at the dead cat on the table and get back to the issues.

          by JesseCW on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 11:54:39 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Race is a social fiction with no basis (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Brown Thrasher, beltane

        in biological fact.

        When the speaker treats a group of people as a race, their bigotry against that group is racism.

        I love you stupid fucking fucks. Now stop poking at the dead cat on the table and get back to the issues.

        by JesseCW on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 11:52:28 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  While I see your point (0+ / 0-)

        the common Russian ephithet for Chechens is "Chyorniy Zhopi", which translates as, "Black asses".

        "Maybe: it's a vicious little word that could slay me"--Sara Bareilles

        by ChurchofBruce on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 02:14:15 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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