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View Diary: Search continues for Dzhokar Tsarnaev (318 comments)

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  •  yep. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    chuckvw, Nada Lemming
    Casualties of the conflict in Iraq since 2003 (beginning with the 2003 invasion of Iraq, and continuing with the ensuing occupation of Iraq, as well as the activities of the various armed groups operating in the country) have come in many forms, and the accuracy of the information available on different types of Iraq War casualties varies greatly.

    The table below summarizes various estimates of the Iraqi casualty figures.

    Source    Casualties    Time period
    Associated Press    110,600 violent deaths    March 2003 to April 2009

    Iraq Body Count project    110,937–121,227 civilian deaths from violence. 172,907 civilian and combatant deaths
        March 2003 to December 2012

    Iraq Family Health Survey    151,000 violent deaths    March 2003 to June 2006

    Lancet survey    601,027 violent deaths out of 654,965
    excess deaths    March 2003 to June 2006

    Opinion Research Business survey    1,033,000 deaths as a result of the conflict    March 2003 to August 2007

    WikiLeaks. Classified Iraq War Logs 109,032 deaths including 66,081 civilian deaths.

    January 2004 to December 2009

    Warning - some snark above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 GOP Rep. Steve Stockman (TX):"If babies had guns, they wouldn't be aborted"

    by annieli on Fri Apr 19, 2013 at 12:49:41 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Well burn the whole government to the ground! (12+ / 0-)

      Clearly there is NOTHING the government can ever do again that's not tainted by the fucking Bush administration. Oh, and Obama wants to gut SS and build the XKL. That tears it, we can't have any government any more forever and ever.

      WTF does dragging the Iraq war crap into this discussion accomplish? There are bad things the government has done. We get that. But do you think there is ANY good that can come from government or not?

      You can't assassinate the character of any of modern conservative. You'd have to find where it was buried, dig it up, resurrect it, then kill it. And killing a zombie isn't really assassination, is it?

      by ontheleftcoast on Fri Apr 19, 2013 at 12:58:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  you first /nt (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Nada Lemming

        Warning - some snark above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 GOP Rep. Steve Stockman (TX):"If babies had guns, they wouldn't be aborted"

        by annieli on Fri Apr 19, 2013 at 01:01:06 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Why argue with facts against the (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        annieli, ontheleftcoast, Jack Hare, Smoh

        stupid?

      •  If you look at the poster's political compass (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ontheleftcoast, annieli

        result, he/she is likely an anarchist. In that case, he/she probably does not believe government can do good.

        Republicans are far more socialist than Democrats. Just because they want to redistribute the wealth upwards does not make it any better.

        by MrAnon on Fri Apr 19, 2013 at 01:15:22 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  obviously. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Nada Lemming

          Warning - some snark above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 GOP Rep. Steve Stockman (TX):"If babies had guns, they wouldn't be aborted"

          by annieli on Fri Apr 19, 2013 at 01:20:49 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  and should be replaced by a system of mutually (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ontheleftcoast, nota bene, aitchdee, Smoh

          interested individuals working together to achieve common goals, and assure the safety of collective members.

          In other words, a government.

          •  I'm no anarchist (0+ / 0-)

            But I'm afraid it's not so simple. A rather widely held theory in political science is that the state functions as a stationary bandit - as opposed to the roving bandits you would get in anarchy.

            Republicans are far more socialist than Democrats. Just because they want to redistribute the wealth upwards does not make it any better.

            by MrAnon on Fri Apr 19, 2013 at 03:17:43 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Since anarchy (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Nada Lemming

              as a political theory (social anarchism) doesn't allow individuals to have unwarranted authority over others, in an anarchist society those roving bandits would be swiftly dealt with, since a bandit who uses violence to dominate people is using a form of unwarranted authority, and would thus more likely find refuge in some capitalist state where banditry is often legal [think of banksters] and is far more easily committed.  

              Anarchists wouldn't put up passively with bandits. They would likely cast them out. ;)

              "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

              by ZhenRen on Fri Apr 19, 2013 at 11:40:41 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Words can mean different things (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Nada Lemming

            Government can mean different things.

            In anarchism, there is no central state authority that is separate and above the people. Instead, the people form worker collectives and participatory communities in which everyone has an equal voice in self management of the community. These collectives and assemblies unite in federations, on local regional and national levels, to which delegates are sent who are immediately recallable and are mandated and directed by the communities. It is much different than government as most people conceive of it. It could be called a form of self-managed government, but it is directly managed from the bottom up, thus it doesn't become a separate entity apart and above people, dictating laws and directives from on high, with no recourse to change it from common people at the bottom.

            In this sense, it is definitely not a government as most people conceive of it.

            "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

            by ZhenRen on Fri Apr 19, 2013 at 11:31:31 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  I trust our government a lot more (6+ / 0-)

        than I trust a bunch of bomb throwers or a gaggle of gun goons who are sick with NRA paranoia.

        •  Don't get me wrong (5+ / 0-)

          I think Reagan's "trust but verify" needs to be applied to our government. But I also believe we need the government and while it may currently be broken in places it's worth saving, not tearing down.

          You can't assassinate the character of any of modern conservative. You'd have to find where it was buried, dig it up, resurrect it, then kill it. And killing a zombie isn't really assassination, is it?

          by ontheleftcoast on Fri Apr 19, 2013 at 01:29:28 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  I'm not really clear (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ontheleftcoast, Smoh

      on how this related to today's events, or how it really responds in a meaningful way to AdJ's comment.

      Thanks to the internet, bullshit now travels at the speed of light.

      by nota bene on Fri Apr 19, 2013 at 01:00:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  if 100k+ needless deaths in an illegal war (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Nada Lemming

        is not an evil government act, then there's not a lot to discuss further

        Warning - some snark above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 GOP Rep. Steve Stockman (TX):"If babies had guns, they wouldn't be aborted"

        by annieli on Fri Apr 19, 2013 at 01:02:53 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I don't think anybody would dispute that (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Jack Hare, Be Skeptical

          what's in dispute is whether what's actually going on right now in Boston is evil.

          Thanks to the internet, bullshit now travels at the speed of light.

          by nota bene on Fri Apr 19, 2013 at 01:05:35 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  but that's all I said, but since you insist (0+ / 0-)

            on donuts by ignoring my reasonable and direct respone albeit sarcastic given the ALL CAPS, I'll remember what you did for future reference

            Warning - some snark above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 GOP Rep. Steve Stockman (TX):"If babies had guns, they wouldn't be aborted"

            by annieli on Fri Apr 19, 2013 at 01:25:46 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  let's review.... (0+ / 0-)

              Top comment in the thread says "AND now they're searching house by house. So much for protection from illegal search and seizure." Which is silly and incorrect.

              Why this is incorrect is explained. Another poster says "I wish more people understood this," followed by a reply saying "some people are wedded to a narrative that government is evil."

              You respond w/ deaths in Iraq, which I take to be a confirmation of government in general being evil, or something. This is why someone else asked you to be more nuanced.

              I HR'd two of your comments to Globe199, which are clearly ad hominem (and you haven't denied that). I was inclined to let the first one slide, but then you repeated it.

              I stand by the HRs. If you have a problem with that, email admins.

              Thanks to the internet, bullshit now travels at the speed of light.

              by nota bene on Fri Apr 19, 2013 at 01:46:25 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  anneili, I like you, and I respect your opinions (0+ / 0-)

      but, are you saying that you would rather this person go free with unknown caches of bombs and guns to do more damage?

      when does, "Public Good" come into this discussion?

      Is it possible that you could take a more nuanced view to this situation?

      •  no. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Nada Lemming

        some folks seem to think that ALL CAPS and fallacious reasoning using projective words not written by me are the coin of the realm. That's not nuance;  it's clearly less entertaining now that I know who where the problems lie, although perhaps some folks listened too much to Mika this morning

        eom.

        Warning - some snark above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 GOP Rep. Steve Stockman (TX):"If babies had guns, they wouldn't be aborted"

        by annieli on Fri Apr 19, 2013 at 01:19:10 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Well you are entitled to your opinions. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Smoh, Nada Lemming

          I respectfully disagree with you on this.

          I get angry about the civil rights abuses here by law enforcement, and by federalis too. And I was disgusted by our abandonment of the Geneva Convention rules in 2nd Gulf War/Afghanistan War. What Bush engendered and this administration upheld is no less disgusting than what King George the III did with the laws to prosecute dissenting voices as well.

          However the police being what they are, and the federal law enforcement too, are stuck between the immovable object and the unstoppable force. Even I can see that.

          They do jobs like this, which we desperately need, which I believe is good. And then due to corporate influences, their job descriptions have been twisted, so that they also hurt our civil rights in an attempt to protect certain bottom lines.

          But right now, in this moment,  I am glad they are out there, doing their job.

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