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View Diary: Open thread for night owls: A few tweets about Boston you may have missed in today's flurry (238 comments)

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  •  Any idea what that 3,033 count includes?... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Eric Nelson, YucatanMan, DeadHead

    ...There were 2,605 Americans killed on 9/11. Where and when were those other 528 killed? By my count, if you stretch it to include killings like Daniel Pearl, raises the total from 2001-2013, including Boston, from 2,605 to 2,636.

    Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

    by Meteor Blades on Fri Apr 19, 2013 at 10:24:47 PM PDT

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    •  Oklahoma City? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Eric Nelson, DeadHead

      Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel

      by a gilas girl on Fri Apr 19, 2013 at 10:35:46 PM PDT

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    •  I don't, but this from HuffPo questions the.. (5+ / 0-)

      accuracy - 11/07/11 11:55 PM ET  

      WASHINGTON -- The federal government's main database of global terrorism includes tens of thousands of attacks over the last seven years, a survey of strikes by Islamic extremists, secular anarchists, animal rights activists and eco-terrorists.

      But missing among the statistics are numerous cases of anti-abortion violence in the United States, an omission that raises questions about what defines terrorism and underscores how sensitive the issue of reproductive rights remains -- even when dealing with statistics.

      But it doesn't add up to the 528 figure you've noted  though.
      So the definition of terrorism isn't settled - I guess?
      "There is no single definition of terrorism," said LaFree, a criminology professor who also directs the National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism, which was founded in 2005 with DHS funding and includes the GTD database. "Even different branches of the U.S. government disagree on terrorism definitions."
      I'll try and find out
    •  Maybe he is including the foreign nationals (3+ / 0-)

      Who died on 9/11, which would be the fair thing to do if he's not separating out non-American workplace and firearm deaths occurring in the US.

      •  That makes sense because the source that.. (0+ / 0-)

        Chris Hayes sites is GTD Global terrorism Database. Which one. Hard to say, there seems to be many.

      •  But it is labeled "American Fatalities" (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Eric Nelson, Meteor Blades

        which is not the same as "Fatalities in America"

        Foreign nationals are not "Americans"

        "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

        by YucatanMan on Fri Apr 19, 2013 at 11:15:16 PM PDT

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        •  That seems like unnecessary quibbling (3+ / 0-)

          Like claiming that a "certificate of live birth" is not the same as a "birth certificate".

          Does it seem more likely to you that "workplace deaths" and "firearms deaths" only include the deaths of American citizens or of all people who died in that manner on American soil?  The math makes more sense if "American fatalities" means "fatalities pertaining to the territory of the United States" rather than "fatalities pertaining to citizens of the United States".

      •  It *would* be fair, which is why I question the... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Eric Nelson

        ...graphic—it says "Americans" and 372 foreign nationals were killed that day, which is something that rarely gets noticed on anniversaries of the attacks or most other mentions. A little accuracy in that regard is all I ask.

        Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

        by Meteor Blades on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 04:14:30 AM PDT

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    •  Wikipedia (yeah, I know) (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Eric Nelson, JeffW

      has a decent list of terror attacks since 2000 -- a lot that many have forgotten about or maybe didn't classify as terror in our own minds but apparently the government is less picky. I've got a headache (heading for bed soon -- Mr. Scribe just left to go over to his mom's and who knows when he'll be home?) or I'd run some numbers to see how they add up.

      There's only one rule that I know of, babies -- goddammit, you've got to be kind. -- Kurt Vonnegut

      by Cali Scribe on Fri Apr 19, 2013 at 11:11:09 PM PDT

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      •  I added that list up and got (0+ / 0-)

        172 Americans for every year except 2001 (which is the anomaly year).  But this list includes somewhat high numbers for 2008-9 which include US soldiers killed in Iraq and Afghanistan by suicide bombers.  Those could also be considered war casualties rather than terrorism casualties.

        I get:

        2000: 17
        ---
        2002: 26
        2003: 12
        2004: 7
        2005: 4
        2006: 1
        2007: 19
        2008: 29
        2009: 17
        2010: 15
        2011: 17
        2012: 4
        2013: 4

        Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel

        by a gilas girl on Fri Apr 19, 2013 at 11:45:09 PM PDT

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