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View Diary: NRA: If More People Had Pressure-Cooker Bombs, This Wouldn't Have Happened (105 comments)

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  •  Eh. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    drmah, commonmass, pico, S F Hippie

    Don't trust anyone over 84414

    by BentLiberal on Fri Apr 19, 2013 at 07:53:55 PM PDT

    •  One would hope that most people might (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      white blitz, VClib, FrankRose

      consider a retraction and apology about one's suggestion that the bomber was a Tea Party member, or at least display some form of critical self-reflection about his blogging.  Or one could just move on and find another target as if the other diary wasn't an awful, offensively stupid thing to post in the first place, especially since a local Tea Party organizer lost a family member in the bombing.  

      Looks like we're going with the latter, I guess.

      Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

      by pico on Fri Apr 19, 2013 at 08:26:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  No one's going to apologize for rationally (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ChadmanFL, a2nite

        discussing the circumstances of the bombing in light of the information available at the time.  If you want an apology, demand it of the media that actually did engage in speculation - and the kind of speculation that endangered lives.  Seriously, grow up.

        Democracy is a habit, not a circumstance.

        by Troubadour on Fri Apr 19, 2013 at 08:32:07 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Oh, don't worry: the comment wasn't aimed (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          stevej, VClib, FrankRose

          at you.  I don't expect anything like tact, maturity, or critical self-reflection from you, least of all when you accuse people of being attempted mass-murderers on the basis of nothing but a gut feeling and few speciously cherry-picked "facts", and then pretend it was a "rational" response.   Given any thought that your writing was hurtful, unnecessary, and cruel at that moment?  Nope... you're already on to the next target.

          I'd love it if you changed your tag to "the distinct whiff of tea" and wore it as your scarlet A for a while, but like I said, I don't expect much from you.

          Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

          by pico on Fri Apr 19, 2013 at 08:39:34 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  pico - I too have been waiting for the apology (3+ / 4-)

        For those of us who suggested patience, and that there were as many "clues" that the bombers were lone wolves or radicalized Islamists were told we were missing the obvious. While April 15th and Patriots Day may have suggested a militia member they were no clues that a Tea Party member would have bombed the Boston Marathon. The Tea Party is about reducing government spending and has never condoned any actual violence. The target was the concentration of people around the Marathon, which was always the most obvious reason for the timing. Who the bombers might be was unknown.

        The entire game of "guess the bombers" was an embarrassment and the problem is those who participated don't even recognize it.  

        This diary isn't funny and the timing is insensitive.

        "let's talk about that"

        by VClib on Fri Apr 19, 2013 at 08:45:39 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Common refrain from talking heads. "We don't (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          gffish

          really know what's going on" but that won't stop us from talking about it anyway.

          •  HR'd (6+ / 0-)

            For the complete lie about only caring about spending.  They are strong advocates for limiting reproductive rights and gun issues.  I won't even start with direct attacks on programs like PBS or voting rights.  Chris Hayes covered this for an hour.

            •  that's ratings abuse (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              VClib, ban nock

              First off, he never said they cared ONLY about spending.  Clearly they were about spending, and his comment was in good faith.  

              Second, it's not at all fair either to say "they" were about reproductive rights or gun issues.  Some groups or individuals may have been about those issues, others weren't.  There never was one orgainized "Tea Party".  

              For example, one of the most vile groups to claim the "Tea Party" banner was probably "Tea Party Nation", the only tea-party related group to be classified as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center.  The "Tea Party Express" group has also had it's hateful moments, as at one point it's former chairman Mark Williams had to resign after a racist blog post.  

              One of the original tea party groups though, the Tea Party Patriots, really were more focused on government, and the "Contract from America" focused exlusively on spending and limiting the role of government (including in regulation).  They still had really bad ideas, which would be economically disasterous, and which appealed mostly to narrow minded selfishness.  

              But it is in no way a defense of any of the above to say that the movement as a whole was about reducing spending, or that it did not actually support terrorist attacks.  Those are true enough statements, even though I disagree with VClib and I think the diary was kind of funny, and that the treatment of the Tea Party here is reasonably within the usual bounds of what is obviously meant as satire.  

              But VClib is entirtled to his opinion, and by no means does he seem to be a Tea Party defender or troll.  He is an active member  of 7 years who simply dissagrees with you on whether this kind of humor is funny at this time, after such a tragic event.  And you are HRing him for that disagreement.  It would have been enough to simply disagree and say why.

        •  "The Tea Party has never condoned violence.."???? (10+ / 0-)

          Oh for heaven's sake...Whilst I did not participate in any conjecture on this forum your sales pitch for the Tea Party is poor at best.

          They are not about smaller government, they are about more intrusive government allowing the intrusion of the radical right's religious beliefs into my home.

          The American Taliban is an apt moniker.

          Wonders are many, but none so wonderful as man.

          by Morgan Sandlin on Fri Apr 19, 2013 at 08:55:15 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Your advocacy for the Tea Party is sick. (4+ / 0-)
          The Tea Party is about reducing government spending and has never condoned any actual violence.
          Other than advocating "2nd Amendment solutions" and "watering the tree of liberty with the blood of 'tyrants'"?  Do you remember how they reacted to the Giffords shooting?  The first words out of their mouth in an official press release was to say that she's a liberal, like that somehow explained why she was shot.

          The fact that you're defending those pieces of shit on Daily Kos is beyond the pale.

          Democracy is a habit, not a circumstance.

          by Troubadour on Fri Apr 19, 2013 at 08:59:51 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  He/She can defend the Tea Party if they wish... (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            white blitz, Troubadour

            Every individual is entitled to their own opinion, its one of the things that sets Dkos apart.

            But I have no patience with individuals trying to "defend" with the big lie.

            Use facts because the community rather demands it.

            Wonders are many, but none so wonderful as man.

            by Morgan Sandlin on Fri Apr 19, 2013 at 09:17:38 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  No one is "entitled" to spew RW bullshit here... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Troubadour

              sorry...

              The FACT is, the Tea Party is NOT:

              about reducing government spending
              That's a rightwing, Teabagger lie, not an "opinion" and it has no place on this site...

              Baby, where I come from...

              by ThatSinger on Fri Apr 19, 2013 at 09:21:07 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Reread my post..... (0+ / 0-)

                Your statement isn't even related to the content of my response.

                Wonders are many, but none so wonderful as man.

                by Morgan Sandlin on Fri Apr 19, 2013 at 09:27:40 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I don't need to re-read it... (0+ / 0-)

                  I've read the rules of this site, and no one is "entitled" to "defend" the Tea Party here... no one is "entitled" to advance the Tea Party's bullshit meme that:

                  The Tea Party is about reducing government spending

                  It's not... it's about overturning the Affordable Care Act... it's about transvaginal ultrasounds... it's about "corporations are people"... it's about making it as difficult as possible for minorities to vote... it's the absolute antithesis of what this site is about and promotes...

                  This public forum is private property and the parameters around which one is "entitled" to post are clearly delineated...

                  Anything else?

                  Baby, where I come from...

                  by ThatSinger on Fri Apr 19, 2013 at 09:33:49 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  ...and I give up. (0+ / 0-)

                    Your distortion of my comment makes as much sense as Vclib's big lie.

                    I just don't do this level of discourse. After climbing down I'm always faced with climbing back up when its over and its too darn tiring.

                    Have a good evening.

                    Wonders are many, but none so wonderful as man.

                    by Morgan Sandlin on Fri Apr 19, 2013 at 09:41:03 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  This is not an accurate statement... (0+ / 0-)

                      as it relates to this site:

                      He/She can defend the Tea Party if they wish... (2+ / 0-)
                      Every individual is entitled to their own opinion, its one of the things that sets Dkos apart.
                      He/She can NOT defend the Tea Party as they wish on this site... yes, they're entitled to their opinion, but they're not entitled to state that opinion if it supports, enables or otherwise validates disproven, RW bullshit memes like:
                      The Tea Party is about reducing government spending
                      Stand With Rand is >>>> thataway...

                      I'm sorry if that hurts your feelings and I hope you have a good evening too...

                      Baby, where I come from...

                      by ThatSinger on Fri Apr 19, 2013 at 10:30:18 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

              •  Taxed Enough Already (TEA) (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                acerimusdux, VClib, noway2

                According to the Wiki page:

                The Tea Party movement is an American political movement that advocates strict adherence to the United States Constitution,[1] reducing U.S. government spending and taxes,[2][3] and reduction of the U.S. national debt and federal budget deficit.[2]
                (emphasis mine)

                As ThatSinger states "Use facts because the community rather demands it."

                I haven't seen anything to indicate that his statement is a lie. Please source proof if you're going to make that type of inflammatory accusation. It seems like you're the one spewing bullshit here.

                •  Ooops, sorry ThatSinger (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  acerimusdux, VClib

                  that should be

                  As Morgan Sandlin states "Use facts because the community rather demands it."

                •  white blitz..... (0+ / 0-)

                  I'm not sure that a Wiki quote sums up all the dark and crazy that is the Tea Party.

                  Wonders are many, but none so wonderful as man.

                  by Morgan Sandlin on Fri Apr 19, 2013 at 09:56:38 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  The notion that the Tea Party is a "grass roots", (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  chmood, BadKitties

                  anti-tax organization that sprung up independent of the Koch Brothers, Dick Armey, et al is an absolute, bullshit, disproven lie... propagating that lie here on Daily Kos is clearly a violation of site rules...

                  Citing Wikipedia will get you laughed off this site as well...

                  Sorry...

                  Baby, where I come from...

                  by ThatSinger on Fri Apr 19, 2013 at 10:32:32 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  So will ratings abuse..... (4+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    VClib, ban nock, noway2, FrankRose

                    First, no one said any of those things here.  No one here said anything at all in defense of the Tea Party.  

                    VClib is not defending the Tea Party, or saying you shouldn't say how vile they are, he just thinks it is insensitive to use a recent terrorist attack in such a characterization.  And he's entitled to that opinion.

                    And whatever vile things might be true of some of the tea party members and associated groups, it is nonetheless true that the movement as a whole was originally mainly "about reducing government spending" and did not endorse terrorism.

                    In any case, since pretty much all of the participants in this discussion have been long time trusted users with more mojo than I've got, I doubt any of them will be laughed off the site anytime soon.  But I think you all should be able to disagree on things like this without it becoming a ratings war.    

                    •  The vast majority of Teabaggers' taxes... (0+ / 0-)

                      Went down, not up… Therefore the whole notion of "taxed enough already" is bullshit… Therefore the notion that the tea party is an anti-tax group is bullshit… Just because they (and Wikipedia) say they are does not make it so… Therefore the comment propagated right wing, Teabagger bullshit and was rightfully hidden…

                      "Abuse?" I don't happen to think so, and apparently I'm not alone…

                      Baby, where I come from...

                      by ThatSinger on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 09:27:12 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                •  "disingenuous and deliberately deceptive", then (0+ / 0-)

                  The way the so-called "right" has for half a century and more  tried (and often succeeded) in tying every even-slightly-liberal idea to "dirty hippies, commie-sympathizers, disloyal pinkos, fellow-travelers", etc., the Tea Party can just plain suck it.

                  They're all in the same sewer stew, and IMO, the pretense that they get to use the "No True Scotsman" routine as a defense, whenever they like, - AND WIN! - is as vile, as dishonest, and as worthy of contempt as anything in the history of people being shitty.  They think we're stupid for falling for it, and I agree:  falling for it IS stupid.

                  They travel the same road as the slavers, the overseers, the ancient ruling class, tyrants, racists, mass-murderers, witch-burners, bombers, and lunatics.

                  THEY SHOULD NEVER GO UNCHALLENGED ON THIS SHIT.

                  I, for one, rather appreciate the idiot cleverness that lets expose themselves so blandly/blindly;  then again, I grew up in the segregated Old South, and I've been studying the "Christian Asshole" style of oppression my whole life.

                  I am a leaf on the wind - i hover, twirl, float,
                  Weightless, frictionless, I fly

                  by chmood on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 06:00:21 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

        •  Right... the Tea Party doesn't "condone" violence. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Troubadour, estreya, chmood

          aside from showing up at presidential appearances armed with assault weapons and "liberally" spewing the "Tree of Liberty" quote menacingly...

          Please explain how this comment:

          The Tea Party is about reducing government spending and has never condoned any actual violence.
          Isn't promoting/apologizing for a Rightwing extremist group and why I shouldn't HR your comment...

          That's absolute bullshit.. the "Tea Party" didn't give a fuck about "government spending" until Barack Obama became president...

          Tick tock...

          Baby, where I come from...

          by ThatSinger on Fri Apr 19, 2013 at 09:08:14 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  HR for promoting a bullshit Tea Party meme... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Troubadour

          I decided not to wait..

          Explain this comment:

          The Tea Party is about reducing government spending
          and I'll reconsider...

          Baby, where I come from...

          by ThatSinger on Fri Apr 19, 2013 at 09:09:33 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Tea Party protesters (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Morgan Sandlin, estreya

          Have openly advocated violence against Obama, abortion providers, and "illegals", among other groups.

          Republicans are far more socialist than Democrats. Just because they want to redistribute the wealth upwards does not make it any better.

          by MrAnon on Fri Apr 19, 2013 at 09:47:39 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  ..not to mention overthrow of our government (0+ / 0-)

            if they don't get their way.

            The Tea Party doesn't love the United States, the love only the part that they can control.

            Truly a worrisome group with no respect for their fellow citizens.

            Wonders are many, but none so wonderful as man.

            by Morgan Sandlin on Fri Apr 19, 2013 at 09:59:04 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  But they're not, and never have, done (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              acerimusdux, VClib, FrankRose, MrAnon

              anything like threatening to bomb innocent people at a public event, and there was no evidence - none - even remotely linking them to the event.  

              This is what I find worrisome: the abstraction of political debate into such a toxic partisanship that we look for the first opportunity to pin anything on the people we hate most, evidence be damned.  And when an actual Tea Party organizer lost a family member in the bombing... I mean, Jesus, we forget that there are real people behind these discussions, not just Ideas.  There's a basic level of human decency here, and I find it genuinely dispiriting that it gets shrugged off so easily.

              None of that needs to go as far as defending the Tea Party, or their ideas, as such.   But there's a line from the Bard about the quality of mercy, and it's worth keeping in mind.

              Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

              by pico on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 12:54:17 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  but they're on THE SAME PATH as those who do: (0+ / 0-)

                it is wholly reasonable to expect them to account for that fact BEFORE they're taken seriously on any of their "ideas".

                I am a leaf on the wind - i hover, twirl, float,
                Weightless, frictionless, I fly

                by chmood on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 06:08:49 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  No, they're not. (0+ / 0-)

                  And you don't want to head down that path even if you think they are, on the basis of so little evidence... rhetoric about revolution, not even remotely acted upon, isn't enough.  Otherwise: why not self-identified anarchists?   They actually did try to blow up a bridge in Cleveland just a few months ago.  

                  Oh, that's just a generalization with no rational basis?

                  Exactly.

                  I'll repeat what I said above: for the most part all's fair in politics and debate, but you have to recognize when you're crossing the line into bad faith, tactlessness, and offense.   Otherwise there's not much sunlight between people who caught 'a whiff of tea' and people who jump and shout 'jihad' every time they see their own shadow.   There's something to be said for patience, for letting the details emerge, and for holding one's tongue.  Not every thought that crosses one's mind is appropriate for hasty public discussion.

                  That's not a Democratic thing or a Republican thing or a conservative, liberal, tea-party, progressive, anarchist, communist, or whatever thing.  That's a human thing.  

                  Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

                  by pico on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 11:53:24 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  Fair enough. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                pico

                Republicans are far more socialist than Democrats. Just because they want to redistribute the wealth upwards does not make it any better.

                by MrAnon on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 09:04:26 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

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