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View Diary: Should There Be a Public Safety Exception to Miranda? (55 comments)

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  •  True. But you can get that information by . . . (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sceptical observer, JesseCW, ZhenRen

    . . .using current methods law enforcement uses all the time.

    Money ain't free speech and it won't buy you love.

    by waztec on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 07:20:28 PM PDT

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    •  Dhokozh may have info on the network (0+ / 0-)

      we can't get any other way. 3 people were already murdered and over 100 injured--some with amputations.  Let's get real.

      •  What exactly does "let's get real" mean? (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        waztec, BradyB, ZhenRen

        I have little doubt Dhokozh knows his rights under our legal system.  He's lived here long enough to know he's got the right to demand a lawyer.

        Do you want to deny him a lawyer if he asks for one?

        Do you want to somehow compel him to talk?

        If so, how?  Do you want to deny him pain medication?

        If that doesn't work, would trying to manipulate his hospital bed into a painful position be ok?

        Lemme know if we've found your line yet.

        We know damn well, thanks to the ignored report, that the last Administration went much farther and the only fallout was promotions for those who green lighted the torture.

        I love you stupid fucking fucks. Now stop poking at the dead cat on the table and get back to the issues.

        by JesseCW on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 09:04:01 PM PDT

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      •  BTW - we've got everything we'll ever (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Bob Love, BradyB, ZhenRen

        need to put him away for the rest of his natural life whether or not any statements he makes now can be used against him.

        You get that, right?

        Mirandizing him won't mean he gets to walk.  Questioning him without reading him his rights or giving him a lawyer doesn't set him free without an "exception".

        I love you stupid fucking fucks. Now stop poking at the dead cat on the table and get back to the issues.

        by JesseCW on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 09:11:48 PM PDT

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        •  I understand that we have enough (0+ / 0-)

          evidence on him to put him away for life, or preferably, get the death penalty.  My concern, and that of other rational law enforcement people, is that we need to know about the rest of the network.  I understand you don't care so much about that--we have a difference of opinion.

        •  Fruit of the poisonous tree? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JesseCW

          Correct, questioning him without giving him Miranda warnings does not mean he walks, it just means the prosecution can't use any confession or statements in court.  Here, we have plenty of evidence that will ensure his conviction, regardless of whether anything he says is usable in court.  We have the confession to the car whose car they hijacked, we have an ID from the guy whose legs got blown off, we have videos and photos of the shooting of the MIT police officer.

          Only issue is the fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine, which says that if someone is not read his rights and then makes a statement, both the statement and any evidence that the police find as a result of that statement is tainted and can't be used in court.  So if his tainted statement leads to evidence against others, can the statement and the evidence be used against them?  Maybe they do not have standing, I'm not sure.

          •   I honestly do not know if it applies (0+ / 0-)

            if questioning you without Mirandizing you would, say, lead them to physical evidence that would allow them to prosecute me.

            I love you stupid fucking fucks. Now stop poking at the dead cat on the table and get back to the issues.

            by JesseCW on Sun Apr 21, 2013 at 01:09:07 PM PDT

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      •  Dzhokhar n/t (0+ / 0-)

        Gondwana has always been at war with Laurasia.

        by AaronInSanDiego on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 09:35:15 PM PDT

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      •  True again. But, if you steal. . . (0+ / 0-)

        . . .a citizen's civil liberties  (I think he is a citizen) You are trying to steal mine too.  Good police work will find the answers without the abridgement of rights. The world has not become that much more dangerous.  It is just that information exchanges are faster, so our sense of danger is more immediate. Anyway, I am loath to lose what few rights I have left.

        I have had police try to reduce my liberties- personally.  let me clue you in. I did not like it, particularly given that I was innocent.

        If we are going to elect Democrats, lets elect real ones!

        by waztec on Sun Apr 21, 2013 at 07:22:24 AM PDT

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    •  Law enforcement MAY be able to ... (0+ / 0-)

      use current methods to get information, but there is NO guarantee they could get all of it, especially the most important parts.  

      Still, just because Bomber #2 is questioned without being Mirandized doesn't mean he will tell them anything at all.

      It's still possible that more lives will be lost.  The Aurora Theater shooter, James Holmes, booby-trapped his apartment, hoping at the time to kill many more people.  But for whatever reason, he told authorities about it and further loss of life was avoided.  (It was never reported that delayed Mirandizing of him under the public safety exception occurred, but it's possible that's what happened.)

      "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

      by Neuroptimalian on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 11:25:04 PM PDT

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