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View Diary: TSR-2 - or, the betrayal of the British aircraft industry (94 comments)

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  •  Thanks SF (5+ / 0-)

    I knew the TSR died in a political fireflight,  I didn't realize it was as promising a plane as you describe.  

    It's not unusual for the victors ignore the lessons of victory. But what was the point of consolidating the UK's aircraft capability?  Not just the historic examples but the modern travails of MacBoeing.

    I know the missile magic, it hobbled US fighter capabilities for nearly 30 years.  But I don't understand it.

    I worked at General Dynamics in Fort Worth, long after the F-111 production ceased, but the wounds were still tender.

    “that our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry.” Thomas Jefferson

    by markdd on Tue Apr 23, 2013 at 07:30:40 PM PDT

    •  Exactly! I was on the fringes of the .. (6+ / 0-)

      ....'fire fight' and it was VERY VERY messy!'

      People - and very highly placed ones, at that, flat out LIED in order to justify stabbing the industry in the back. Denis Healey's speech to the House of Commons, later, when he was explaining just how WONDERFUL the F-111 was, and how it was just the 'plane for the RAF..made me throw up.

      'Per Ardua Ad Astra'

      by shortfinals on Tue Apr 23, 2013 at 07:53:48 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  My dad worked on the F-111 (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      shortfinals, RiveroftheWest

      and if it makes you feel any better sf, the incredible bureaucratic hassles were very similar. Every nut, bolt, and subcontractor had to be run through not only the DOD, but congressional offices to spread the pork around effectively.

      It is rumoured that a meeting about the placing of ONE switch in the cockpit layout took more than three hours!
      That sounds awfully familiar. The F-111 was a dog's breakfast in a lot of ways for exactly that reason.

      You..ought to be out raising hell. This is the fighting age. Put on your fighting clothes. -Mother Jones

      by northsylvania on Wed Apr 24, 2013 at 02:01:57 AM PDT

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    •  They had way too many companies (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      shortfinals, RiveroftheWest, jwinIL14

      At the end of WWII there were:

      Avro
      Blackburn
      Bristol
      De Havilland
      English Electric
      Fairey
      Folland
      Gloster
      Handley Page
      Hawker
      Miles
      Saunders-Roe
      Supermarine
      Vickers
      Westland

      There may have been more, these are just the ones I could think of.

      There just wasn't enough market to support so many companies, especially with competition from the US.

      If the pilot's good, see, I mean if he's reeeally sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low... oh you oughta see it sometime. It's a sight. A big plane like a '52... varrrooom! Its jet exhaust... frying chickens in the barnyard!

      by Major Kong on Wed Apr 24, 2013 at 03:13:44 AM PDT

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      •  True....but a lot of those had been sustained by (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sphealey, RiveroftheWest, jwinIL14

        immense WW2 contracts, with 'successful' aircraft being built by the others. e.g. Hawker Hurricanes built in quantity by Glosters, almost every Fairey Swordfish built by Blackburns, etc.

        The whole sector was undergoing 'natural' consolidation, immediately post-WW2, e.g. General Aircraft merged with Blackburn..... its just that the Conservative Government of the late 1950s/early 60s really didn't know what they were doing, and had some 'anti-aircraft' people (pardon the pun) at the very top.

        'Per Ardua Ad Astra'

        by shortfinals on Wed Apr 24, 2013 at 03:46:12 AM PDT

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        •  Would they have done better (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          shortfinals, RiveroftheWest, jwinIL14

          to just let nature take its course rather than forcing the mergers?

          If the pilot's good, see, I mean if he's reeeally sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low... oh you oughta see it sometime. It's a sight. A big plane like a '52... varrrooom! Its jet exhaust... frying chickens in the barnyard!

          by Major Kong on Wed Apr 24, 2013 at 03:56:13 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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