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View Diary: Advice to Criminals, Would-be Criminals, Suspects, Accused Criminals, and Those Caught in The Middle (37 comments)

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  •  Exception to Miranda rights (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I think you are wrong.

    We just heard this week about an American citizen who was arrested and will not be given required Miranda warnings because of a previously unheard-of exception involving public safety.

    We know of two infamous cases of American citizens executed by the government without trial, legal defense, or even a sentence - one citizen was not even charged with a crime.    

    And three days ago, I was stopped while using a public thoroughfare, and told if I did not sumit to a police search, I would be not be allowed to continue with my law-abiding and peaceable business.

    The full panolpy of constitutional rights includes the right to a Miranda warning, the right to a trail by jury and to defend oneself in a court of law, and the right to be free of unreasonable search and seizure.  That you have not yet had your constitutional rights violated does not mean such violations are now commonplace.

    "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

    by Hugh Jim Bissell on Sun Apr 21, 2013 at 08:08:00 AM PDT

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    •  It's only "previously unheard of" if you don't (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      emelyn, sewaneepat, WakeUpNeo, HamdenRice

      know criminal procedure.  I learned about Quarles in law school - it's not a secret.  It's been the law for 30 years.  

      Like I said, Americans arrested within the United States.  Things ARE different when the person is outside the country.  I don't know the details of what happened to you, so I can't comment.  But to say that the government has categorically suspended habeas and is indefinitely detaining Americans is wrong, and frankly, stupid.

      •  You are still wrong (1+ / 0-)
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        Ray Pensador

        Even Americans out of the country are still gauranteed  by the consitution - in theory tho' no longer in practice - the protection of due process when accussed by American prosecutors of breaking American laws.  

        Of course you cannot comment when I or other Americans are routinely subject to illegal police searches.  The only comment to be made is that such searches are illegal under our written laws but allowed nonetheless - facts that counter your original assertion.

        What is truely stupid is those people (some who claim to be highly educated) who defend the everyday overturning of citizen rights previously protected under our constitution.

        "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

        by Hugh Jim Bissell on Sun Apr 21, 2013 at 09:04:44 AM PDT

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        •  The protection from illegal searches in public (0+ / 0-)

          areas has long been more theoretical than real. This isn't anything new or recent. It was common When I was a kid over 40 years ago. It's well established that such searches aren't necessarily Constitutional violations.

          I'm not defending this. I am pointing out that it doesn't represent some new encroachment on Constitutional liberty.

          Nothing human is alien to me.

          by WB Reeves on Sun Apr 21, 2013 at 11:55:40 AM PDT

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          •  I am following this with great interest, and your (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Ray Pensador, WB Reeves

            comment really helped me frame my own thoughts.  You are correct in that this has gone on for years, but I also think that maybe we are seeing more of it.  

            The old Alien and Sedition Act also gets dusted off and brought out from time to time, plus now we have some new rules and regs in place for this sort of thing.  

            These actions seem to be broadening and expanding.  Plus, we saw a lot of emergency procedures go in place in terms of people being told to stay in, a city shut down.  

            I am still trying to process this.  There is such a vast ability out there; we never really had to think about it on this level before.  Are we just all suddenly subject to getting ordered around and herded around by large groups of armed forces backed by tanks and other equipment?   If so, is this too creepy for us?

            Is there even a way to put the toothpaste back in the tube?  

            It gets on my nerves, and you know how I am about my nerves...

            by ciganka on Mon Apr 22, 2013 at 03:20:58 AM PDT

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            •  Again, this stuff isn't as unprecedented as (0+ / 0-)

              you may think.

              During the Urban rebellions of the 1960's, cities were essentially placed under military control when National Guard forces were mobilized to restore order. These actions were prefigured by activation of the Guard both by state and Federal authorities during the Civil Rights movement beginning with the Little Rock desegregation crisis which led to the 101st Airborne being deployed. The use of the National Guard for domestic purposes in this period culminated in the shootings of anti-war protesters at Kent state University in Ohio.

              In 1980, I participated in a mass mobilization to protest the murder of radical labor activists by Klan and Nazis in Greensboro, NC. A state of emergency was declared and the march was carried out under the guns of the military, complete with armored vehicles and snipers on roof tops

              My point isn't that the concerns you express are unjustified. To the contrary, I think they a far too serious for their expression to be undermined by exaggerated, counter factual claims and rhetoric. While I understand the sense of urgency and justified outrage that can lead to such errors, they are ultimately counter productive to the very resistance they are trying to promote.  

              Nothing human is alien to me.

              by WB Reeves on Mon Apr 22, 2013 at 10:51:46 AM PDT

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              •  I have read the Red Scare, People's History and (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Ray Pensador

                am quite familiar with these patterns as well as the National Guard, urban riots, and even the Battle for Seattle.  

                I have also spent some time in a conflict zone.

                I think that the level of technology brought in and the shut down for the manhunt just took me by surprise.    

                Maybe it is from living overseas for so many years, but it looks different.  It just seems frenzied.

                I was also quite surprised on my first trip back home when they were announcing threat colors at airports.  

                Sometimes it just flat looks weird, unexpected.  However, I do not spend enough time in the States to really have an opinion on it.  I am just reading impressions and trying to form some of my own thoughts.

                It gets on my nerves, and you know how I am about my nerves...

                by ciganka on Mon Apr 22, 2013 at 01:06:12 PM PDT

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