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View Diary: To my gun owning neighbor and to every gun enthusiast in the United States of America - (333 comments)

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  •  Fore! (12+ / 0-)

    In some places, guns aren't the problem.

    In places like Vermont, where 16 year olds can get concealed carry permits and Idaho; the murder rate is almost Canadian/European.

    If guns from Indiana cause Illinois' murder rate, why is the murder rate higher in Illinois than in Indiana?

    I should not be allowed to have golf clubs.  Whenever I use golf clubs, my ball ends up in a pond or a sand trap.

    But if the diarists neighbor lives in a place with lots of guns but a Canadian murder rate; he's not going to see what the problem is.

    "states like VT and ID are not 'real america'" -icemilkcoffee

    by Utahrd on Sun Apr 21, 2013 at 11:46:59 AM PDT

    •  What does the link prove? (4+ / 0-)

      I expected to find the link showing lack of causality (per your link subject) between guns and crime.

      Instead, you simply link to census data showing crime stats by state without any gun data.   I rate that a very misleading link which doesn't all all support the rest of your comment or your question.

      If guns from Indiana cause Illinois' murder rate, why is the murder rate higher in Illinois than in Indiana?
      Poppycock.  Here, I'll link to stats that actually addresses gun relationship to deaths and refutes your poppycock question
      Firearms Death Rate per 100,000 (most recent) by state

      #21 Indiana
      #31 Illinois

      •  Wrong assertion, even more wrong answer (6+ / 0-)

        Utahrd made the specific and easily verifiable/refutable statement about the murder rate in Inidiana and Illinois.

        Sawgress727 replies with a statement about firearm deaths (which includes suicides and excludes non-gun murders). If Sawgrass727 wanted to actually answer Utahrd's assertion rather than deflecting an inconvenient truth, he could have gone to the FBI Uniform Crime Reports page and found the following:

        Overall murder rate per 100,000:
        Indiana: 4.3
        Illinois: 3.5

        Firearms murder rate per 100,000:

        Indiana: 2.8
        Illinois: 2.9

        Indiana actually has a higher overall murder rate per capita, but less of those murders are committed with guns than in Illinois.

        So, Utahrd is wrong on the overall statement of the murder rates in the two states, but if he was trying to make a point about murders involving guns, he would be correct.

      •  The Suicide Zone (5+ / 0-)

        Your link picks up the data for murders and suicides.  For example, the Intermountain West and its Japanese suicide rate.  Banning guns is not going to change that it's 50 miles of black ice to the nearest psychiatrist and we are too macho to go see him anyway.

        My data from census.gov is for murder rates.

        "states like VT and ID are not 'real america'" -icemilkcoffee

        by Utahrd on Sun Apr 21, 2013 at 04:17:12 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Actually, when you control for population (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      PsychoSavannah

      density and other demographics, gun deaths are higher where gun regulation laws are weak.  Don't believe the cherry picked data and distorted statistics generated by NRA sponsored "studies".  Go instead to the Center for Gun Policy Research at Johns Hopkins University which examines gun related data and applied rigorous and unbiased statistical analysis.  Then what appears is that places like Wyoming with weak gun safety laws have high gun suicide rates.

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