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View Diary: To my gun owning neighbor and to every gun enthusiast in the United States of America - (333 comments)

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  •  He must not read them, as he already has proven (0+ / 0-)

    he doesn't so much know the definitions of simple English words.

    But I am certain he has made excellent headway into coloring them.

    Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

    by FrankRose on Fri Apr 26, 2013 at 07:31:56 AM PDT

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    •  Do you realize that your childish comments (0+ / 0-)

      are not hurting anyone but yourself ?
      OregonOak is an adult with a great deal of knowledge on this subject , knowledge that isn't one dimensional , knowledge that doesn't lead him to say ridiculous things like "coloring them".

      But I am certain he has made excellent headway into coloring them.
      This is something I would expect a schoolyard bully to say and laugh about . An infantile insult that shows a great deal about the person who says it .

      You are obviously not able to converse with OregonOak on his level and I really doubt that he will ever lower himself to your level of discourse .

      You remind me of a loudmouth tattooed big hog riding biker who can't compete in an adult conversation and resorts to flinging inane bull shit in a futile attempt to win via a completely callous disregard for anything and everything above the neck .

      Drop the name-calling MB 2/4/11 + Please try to use ratings properly! Kos 9/9/11

      by indycam on Fri Apr 26, 2013 at 08:24:50 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well, I am handicapped by my insistence of using (0+ / 0-)

        the actual definitions of words. And he certainly proved that he wouldn't stoop to the level of using the correct definitions.

        But thanks for your opinion.
        Really means a lot to me.

        Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

        by FrankRose on Fri Apr 26, 2013 at 09:05:56 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I think your "handicap" lays elsewhere . (0+ / 0-)

          I think you can't accept that you don't know or understand what is being said , that you are hung up on some silly little game and you can't get past it .
          Keep on going about

          the actual definitions of words
          that's really working for you . You really got him there , you really show your great depth by going on and on about "the actual definitions of words" . Do you think anyone is convinced that you have a better handle on the subject because you keep going on about "the actual definitions of words" ? Its such a childish game that you are playing , I'm almost embarrassed for you .

          Drop the name-calling MB 2/4/11 + Please try to use ratings properly! Kos 9/9/11

          by indycam on Fri Apr 26, 2013 at 09:27:55 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Using a pun? How clever. (0+ / 0-)

            Using the disabled as an insult? How classy.

            Using the language correctly is not a 'silly game'. It is basic competence in conversation.
            If one cannot use the language correctly to make a point, then the point is incorrect.
            The meanings of words don't change at your convenience.

            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

            by FrankRose on Fri Apr 26, 2013 at 09:38:33 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Dude , you brought it up . (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              OregonOak
              Well, I am handicapped by my insistence of using
              You can't be so two faced as to believe you can bring it up
              and then object to it ?
              Using the language correctly is not a 'silly game'. It is basic competence in conversation.
              If one cannot use the language correctly to make a point, then the point is incorrect.
              Arrogance is such bad form . Do you know that what you are saying is just plan wrong ? Or do you just not care ?

              Drop the name-calling MB 2/4/11 + Please try to use ratings properly! Kos 9/9/11

              by indycam on Fri Apr 26, 2013 at 09:46:17 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  Thanks Indy, but I don't think Frank understands. (0+ / 0-)

        Entire volumes of books over lifetimes of scholars have been written about the concept of "liberty" and "human freedom." Its not easy and its not simple to put into effect, because the concept is abstract and hard to make work in the real world. You get that, and I get that, but many people don't, and want an easy definition to bandy about, or in this case, to just proclaim and not debate at all.

        Voltaire, Lincoln, Marshall, Henry Clay, John and JQ Adams, Adam Smith, Karl Marx, Immanuel Kant, and thousands of others have struggled with the idea of liberty and freedom when it comes into conflict with others' vision of their own freedom. King George had  EXCELLENT liberty, for himself, yet not as much as King Phillip of Spain, blessed with no Parliament or English Magna Carta of Rights to deal with. But they both failed the test of how to maximize freedom for the greatest number of citizens, and their failure resulted in ... US. The American Experiment in freedom. Even a brief review of the history of attempts at Freedom and Liberty exposes the hazards of individual freedom unaccounted for by checks and balances, and the founders realized they were on a razor thin edge between mob rule, anarchy (perfect individual freedom for all) and tyranny, (perfect individual freedom for one great man, and none for anyone else) It is so difficult to explain how to manage the balance between anarchy and tyranny that they didn't try, aside from Jefferson and Kant, too hard; they put most of their effort into designing a government which EXPRESSED HOW to keep the balance right and charged us, their descendents, with keeping the balance alive. As Franklin said, "Gentlemen,  it is a Republic, if you can keep it."

        The part that worries me the most is that so many Americans have discarded the concept of the Common Good as the way to maximize freedom for every citizen, seeing only their OWN freedoms as maximal and desirable. My debate here is part of that dismay. I do not know how we get back the original spirit of liberty and freedom in the American sense; we are all in this together as equals, and our laws and policies should not expand one man's freedom at the expense of another's, or one group's interests in the interest of others. Instead, we seem to have selfish interest groups single-mindedly pushing to expand their OWN freedom and liberty and everyone else can just suck eggs, if their freedom is impinged upon. If my freedom to travel is at risk because of random terrorists arms, too bad. The terroritst have a right to be armed and threaten me with them. If my freedom to associate is intimidated by armed gangs, as happened at our own Capital last month, too bad, because their freedom comes first over mine. If my freedom to support a political candidate is opposed to my armed neighbors who have violent rhetoric against that candidate, my support just has to stay hidden because their armaments are more sacred than my safety. There is too much shooting around here anyway, on weekends and evenings, and it would be too easy for a drunk armed guy to just aim a few shots this direction and then throw the gun in the river. This has happened too, to the liberal "dissenters" in the area.

        This is all plainly Unconstitutional in my view, and the view of Mr. Breyer and Ms. Sotomayar in Heller, but no matter. Scalia got five votes and now my rights are secondary to the gun owners around me. I wont dare to put out a lawn sign for a Democrat now, since my neighbors are all armed Right wingers here in the countryside i live in. Too bad for me. Their rights are more important than mine.  

        I really think Mr. Madison, Mr Jefferson, Mr. Kant, Mr. Lincoln and Mr. Marshall would agree with me. I can supply quotes if necessary, but I dont think those references would be well-regarded.

         Thanks for your support.

        Figures don't lie, but liars do figure-Mark Twain

        by OregonOak on Fri Apr 26, 2013 at 04:40:05 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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