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View Diary: Who We Are: The Public Arraignment of the Boston Terror Suspect (276 comments)

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  •  This needs to work. (48+ / 0-)

    We see how $^!- would go down in a Red State. This attack happened in a Blue State. One of the original Blue States. A particularly fiestly Blue state.

    We stood down, helped the cops. We got him alive and talking.

    We now prepare to try him under existing, not 'special' or 'extraordinary' laws. The regular stuff. His world is going to be lined with concrete for a LONG time.

    Lets show our Red bretheren how its done.
     

    I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just and that his justice cannot sleep forever. - Thomas Jefferson

    by MightyMoose on Mon Apr 22, 2013 at 05:37:52 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  The same would happen in a red state, (7+ / 0-)

      as this is being handled as a federal case. But, you're right. Blue states are better.

    •  THIS (16+ / 0-)

      We should be as brave as those who wrote our Constitution and Bill of Rights. The more violent and "easy" way is just a fast path to some other system that our country was founded AGAINST.

    •  We know the record of this Blue State when it (5+ / 0-)

      comes to "Red's".

      But it was a whole different group being bellitled and attacked when the good people of the commonwealth of Massachusetts fried Sacco and Vanzetti alive because they were labeled "Reds".

      I love you stupid fucking fucks. Now stop poking at the dead cat on the table and get back to the issues.

      by JesseCW on Mon Apr 22, 2013 at 07:18:21 PM PDT

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      •  One of the reasons (18+ / 0-)

        that this particular blue state--my home state--is far superior to most other states is because we learn from our mistakes.

        Sacco and Vanzetti are the number one reason why the Commonwealth has never re-instituted the death penalty--because we know how it can be abused.

        "Maybe: it's a vicious little word that could slay me"--Sara Bareilles

        by ChurchofBruce on Mon Apr 22, 2013 at 08:00:04 PM PDT

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      •  That was what, 90 years ago? (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Be Skeptical, Wee Mama, mystery2me, Matt Z

        Sorry, but comparing Massachusetts in the 1920s to Massachusetts today is like saying that Barack Obama is Calvin Coolidge in a clever plastic disguise.

        Give me a break.

        •  I'm very glad that this is being handled (4+ / 0-)

          as a civilian case and that he was read his Miranda rights and that he was taken alive. I think this is beneficial for a whole bunch of reasons, plus, these actions are most in line with our Constitution.

          But, we're not just talking about examples from the 1920's.  Just last year, we had US Attorney's office (Carmen Ortiz and Stephen Heymann) working with federal authorities (Secret Service, perhaps others).  They hounded Aaron Swartz to death with their trumped up charges, insistence on jail time during plea bargaining, making the terms worse as he and his lawyer tried for a reasonable outcome, threatening to recommend the max sentence to the judge if he went to trial (35 years in jail) where he was facing ridiculously high charges due to their abuse of power and their intention to "send a message".  The party who was harmed, JSTOR, had already come to terms with Swartz and they opposed the actions by Ortiz and Heymann.  

          And to be fair to Massachussetts, their county prosecutor never intended to carry out this kind of abusive prosecution and Swartz would have ended up with a parole, and dismissed charges if he had no further trouble for a number of years, but the feds were driving this case with influence from Washington, to make an example of Swartz, and admitted intending to "send a message" and they insisted on grabbing this case.  

          Heymann's abuse of power as a prosecutor played a role in the suicide of yet another young man in the past as well.

          Ortiz has a record of throwing overly harsh sentences and one court found her office guilty of violating a plea agreement in another case. In yet another, where she was trying to seize property as a penalty, a court found her guilty of "gross exaggeration" and "stretching the evidence".  

          It's surprising that she was not removed from her position as US Attorney, especially after the last episode with Aaron Swartz.  

          So even though Massachusetts is a blue state, just like all states, they sometimes really mess up too and there is a well known recent history (though not a death penalty case in this instance) and not just the (nearly a century) old history.  And just to reiterate, the examples I am talking about were federal cases, and not the courts of MA technically, but occurred in MA.


          "Justice is a commodity"

          by joanneleon on Tue Apr 23, 2013 at 04:43:07 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Massachusetts is no "blue state." (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      chuckvw, samanthab, k9disc, shaharazade

      Look at whom it elects, ferchrissakes.

      A good question: Is there really such a thing as a "blue state"?

      Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

      by corvo on Mon Apr 22, 2013 at 09:36:34 PM PDT

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      •  Elizabeth Warren isn't progressive enough for you? (5+ / 0-)

        head desk

        •  Mitt Romney and Scott Brown (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          shaharazade

          are progressive enough for you?

          Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

          by corvo on Tue Apr 23, 2013 at 06:31:45 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Neither example makes your point. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Matt Z

            In fact, an examination of why both men served as briefly as they did demolishes it.

            "War is not the answer, for only love can conquer hate." ~ Al Cleveland & Marvin Gaye (1970)

            by JBL55 on Tue Apr 23, 2013 at 07:19:12 AM PDT

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            •  They were elected in the first place. (0+ / 0-)

              Might I also add that Massachusetts had a sodomy law on the books until 2002?

              And actually, the governor's office has been more or less equally split between the parties for a couple of generations now.

              Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

              by corvo on Tue Apr 23, 2013 at 07:29:16 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Your demonstrated lack of comprehension ... (0+ / 0-)

                ... and context about both men's political careers in Massachusetts, including their campaigns and opponents, is unfortunate.

                "War is not the answer, for only love can conquer hate." ~ Al Cleveland & Marvin Gaye (1970)

                by JBL55 on Tue Apr 23, 2013 at 09:52:01 AM PDT

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    •  like that blue state showed aaron swartz? (4+ / 0-)

      i'm all for respecting the rule of law and the jury system, but let's be honest about how the law has been applied in blue states as well as red.

      •  You make a good point, but a different one (0+ / 0-)

        If we had, what is turning out to be a "radical muslim" as the culprit in an attack in a traditional Red State, there would be a lot of tough talk about bringing him to 'justice'. That justice would likely involve a mob or 'special handling' of the case..

        My point is that we are a pretty liberal state, we got grief for our participation from the 'police state' crowd, and now noise because we are pursuing him under civilian laws, not special military ones.

        That is entirely separate from your point, which is that State Prosecutors are out of control. That the metric used to rate performance in that job is "heads on a belt". For that, I agree with you 100%

        Aaron Swartz ran headlong into the 'copyright' machine. DA Ortiz went looking for a head, his was just the next one up.

        My point was about our standard law 'working' rather than taking 2nd Amendment options. Most of the country probably doesn't see it, but Boston is a mix of earthy-crunchy hippies and razorblades in the shoes corporate. At lunchtime they eat in the same places.

        I think a lot of the country writes off Boston as just being 'liberal' without thinking about liberal "how".

        The Dropkick Murphy's come from here. Listen to THOSE lyrics. THAT message.  Family, fraternity, faith & fists. I'm glad it happened here, so 1) it didn't happen to someone else, and 2) the opportunity to show our 'southern' bretheren that we are not wimps, we aren't 'sympathizers', and that our society works just FINE thank you.

        I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just and that his justice cannot sleep forever. - Thomas Jefferson

        by MightyMoose on Tue Apr 23, 2013 at 07:50:23 AM PDT

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        •  unless i'm missing something (0+ / 0-)

          the people prosecuting the bomber are feds, not MA state prosecutors. that has more to do with the obama administration's desire to shift the paradigm of how we prosecute terrorist attacks from the bush admin than it does with massachusetts being a blue state. if ortiz thought it would help her political career, and the obama admin wasn't calling the shots, i'm sure she'd be happy to give tsarnaev the "red state" treatment.

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