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View Diary: Ingraham Says it's Time to End Muslim Immigration (57 comments)

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  •  Judgmentalism vs. Judgment (1+ / 0-)
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    Be Skeptical

    There's a great book called "I'm Judgmental, You're Judgmental" that explores the difference between being judgmental and exercising judgment. Being judgmental is knee-jerk rather than considered, based on stereotypes and incomplete information rather than thorough consideration of facts and circumstances. Judgment means looking at a situation soberly and deciding that it is or isn't acceptable or desirable. As the author of the book points out, some people are so horrified by judgmental behavior that they are loath to exercise judgment, even when it's called for. They say "Who am I to say?" where it would be better to step up and speak up for what's right.

    Laura Ingraham exemplifies judgmental thinking. There are some crazy Moslems who have it in for us -- so let's keep out all Moslems. That's nuts, and un-American. However, exercising judgment -- we now have strong evidence that there really are Moslems who want to kill Americans, and some have managed to do it, and is there a reasonable way that we can identify these people and deport them or keep them out of this country? -- is not at all un-American, or unethical. We have a right to set boundaries and to decide who we're willing to allow to live here. I think that liberals need to participate in conversations about how we're going to handle this kind of problem, or else the conservatives will be the only people talking about it, and whatever perspectives we have on what does and does not constitute "sound judgment" will be left out entirely.

    Please visit: http://www.jkmediasource.org

    by Noisy Democrat on Mon Apr 22, 2013 at 06:18:58 PM PDT

    •  I seriously doubt anyone would object to (1+ / 0-)
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      PJEvans

      trying to keep out "Moslems" who want to kill Americans.  The key is obviously developing a reliable and fair way of identifying them.

      Thank you, Richard Myers. We'll finish it for you. http://stoprush.net

      by ProgLegs on Mon Apr 22, 2013 at 06:32:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Is there a problem with the spelling "Moslem"? (0+ / 0-)

        At one time it was standard; then "Muslim" became more common. I have no idea what the distinction is, unless one is closer to Arabic pronunciation.

        Please visit: http://www.jkmediasource.org

        by Noisy Democrat on Mon Apr 22, 2013 at 06:39:47 PM PDT

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        •  At one time Mahometan was standard (1+ / 0-)
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          Be Skeptical

          but that was a deliberate insult, back in the time of the Crusades. Claiming that Muslims worship Mahomet or worse Mahound (actually Muhammad/Mohammed) is a case of the worst possible blasphemy to devout Muslims. It is called shirq, defined as associating partners with God. "There is no God other than God, and Muhammad is his Prophet." "Only God is great."

          At one time Peking was standard, and now China has decided that it should be Beijing, which is approximately how it is pronounced. The previous Wade-Giles romanization was merely scholarly overreach due to a since discredited theory of the development of languages, and thus only mildly insulting. But still stupid, and a relic of Empire.

          At one time Uluru in the Australian Outback was called Ayers Rock. Lovely giant bit of red sandstone with the layers turned vertical, and with its own ecology around it.

          Language changes for a variety of reasons. In these cases the people concerned got to decide what their own language is, and have that choice accepted even by outsiders. We could do with some more of it. Yes, Muslim is closer to the Arabic pronunciation.

          Ceterem censeo, gerrymandra delenda est

          by Mokurai on Mon Apr 22, 2013 at 07:10:00 PM PDT

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        •  "Muslim" is the proper spelling... (0+ / 0-)

          ...just as "Qur'an" is the proper spelling.

          Muslims and tigers and bears, oh my!

          by JDsg on Mon Apr 22, 2013 at 07:11:45 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Okey-dokey (1+ / 0-)
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            Be Skeptical

            So if I write "Koran" is that some kind of insult?

            Please visit: http://www.jkmediasource.org

            by Noisy Democrat on Mon Apr 22, 2013 at 08:13:22 PM PDT

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            •  When in doubt, throw in a few ' s (0+ / 0-)

              it'll make you look devout

            •  No, it's not an insult... (0+ / 0-)

              ...but Qur'an is the correct transliteration of the Arabic, as is Muslim.

              Muslims and tigers and bears, oh my!

              by JDsg on Tue Apr 23, 2013 at 07:11:14 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Sorry to be pedantic (0+ / 0-)

                but "correct transliteration" doesn't always mean "correct English." The correct transliteration of the name of the Russian capital is Moskva. In English, the city is called Moscow. I have no interest in arguing with anyone here about vowels, so I'll write Muslim. I don't think I'm going to start spelling Koran any differently, though, because I'm writing in English, not attempting to transliterate Arabic.

                Please visit: http://www.jkmediasource.org

                by Noisy Democrat on Tue Apr 23, 2013 at 07:58:34 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  In this case, the correct transliteration... (0+ / 0-)

                  ... is the correct English.  Yes, I am familiar with Moskva, Roma, etc., and I actually think those city names should be written in English that way (similar to how "Bombay" is now, correctly, Mumbai).  "Koran" is an anachronistic spelling of the word that will cause you to be looked at askance by those who know better.  It would be as if you insisted on calling Beijing "Peiping."

                  Muslims and tigers and bears, oh my!

                  by JDsg on Tue Apr 23, 2013 at 08:48:55 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I'll follow AP style guidelines (0+ / 0-)

                    or the OED, once I ascertain what their position is. I don't actually believe that speakers of one language have any right to demand that speakers of a completely different language change their pronunciation to suit them. In French, London is called "Londres." In Spanish, New York is "Nueva York." In Russian, Boston is "Bah-STON," with the second syllable pronounced like "stone." No cause for offense in any of this so far as I can see. But if respected English usage authorities have declared that in English, the correct spelling is Quran or Qur'an, I'll go along with that.

                    Please visit: http://www.jkmediasource.org

                    by Noisy Democrat on Tue Apr 23, 2013 at 12:43:39 PM PDT

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    •  Thanks for this. Very sane. (1+ / 0-)
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      Noisy Democrat

      Now I don't need to buy the book.  (Well no, I might for some of my judgement-shy friends.)

      •  It's a good book (0+ / 0-)

        It's short -- tiny, even -- but insightful. He has a list of something like ten points on which judgmentalism differs from exercise of sound judgment. Very helpful in some circumstances and definitely food for thought.

        Please visit: http://www.jkmediasource.org

        by Noisy Democrat on Mon Apr 22, 2013 at 08:14:43 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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