Skip to main content

View Diary: The Day America Stopped Hiring (214 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  Re (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Kickemout, ethos

    The market has been unfortunately distorted by government policy.

    GWB's "ownership society", trying to get everyone and their grandmother to buy a house. The Fed monkeying around with interest rates and foreign exchange markets. Quasi-guarantees of government bailouts of market institutions. Even now, various forms of "stimulus" and other government distortions. Disallowal of bankruptcy proceedings for student loans. Failure to properly oversee and regulate those things the government should be doing.

    All these things would solve themselves if the government would relax its hypervigilence over the economy and start doing what it's supposed to do, like prosecute financial crimes and keep the mechanics of the system running. Bankruptcies happen, companies fail, wages fall sometimes. It's the world we live in.

    The government's modus operandi lately has been "avoid any pain to anyone at all costs". The Obama administration and Congress quakes in fear over (god no) a decline in GDP, even if that decline ultimately is setting us up for a more stable future by purging the rot from the system. It's the ultimate in quarter-to-quarter management instead of long-term. "The unemployment rate went up 0.2% this quarter! That must mean that the government's plan is a total failure!" The government lives for the sole purpose of making sure that next quarter's numbers are better than this quarter's numbers, and if they aren't, well, can we blame the other party somehow? Sound economic management is not part of the equation.

    (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
    Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

    by Sparhawk on Sat May 04, 2013 at 10:45:24 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  "The government's modus operandi lately ... (13+ / 0-)

      ..has been "avoid any pain to anyone at all costs".

      If that has been the plan, it has been remarkably unsuccessful. You might not have noticed.

      Essentially, the argument that you and other libertarians make (whether or not they are left-libertarians) is that the market would be perfect if only it were left alone. The problem with this is that it—like Marxism and rational choice theory—is just a theory. We live, however, in the real world.

      Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

      by Meteor Blades on Sat May 04, 2013 at 11:03:50 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Libertarian philosophy works well (7+ / 0-)

        for people like Steve Forbes.

        For everyone else, it does not work at all.

        In "Atlas Shrugged", the "heroes" are "captains of industry" who "are job creators". Of course, there is no back story. How did these captains of industry get to be captains? Probably they are not "self-made" but, like Steve Forbes, excellent selectors of the correct parents.

      •  I don't argue... (0+ / 0-)

        ...that the market is or would be perfect, nor do I think that the government has no business in the market.

        But the government often makes things worse instead of better, everything always has a cost.

        (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
        Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

        by Sparhawk on Sat May 04, 2013 at 11:28:33 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The ACA being a case in point (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          soros, ethos, barbwires

          The government effectively caused millions of part time workers to lose hours because it put major surcharges on work over 30 hours. Unintended consequences. The more messy and complicated the legislation is, the more unintended consequences...

          (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
          Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

          by Sparhawk on Sat May 04, 2013 at 11:32:50 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  so the answer was medicare for all.... (4+ / 0-)

            and the abandonment of the inefficient, private insurance market. What's needed is a dramatic expansion of a permanent welfare state that meets everyone's basic needs from cradle to grave. As you admit above, there quite simply is not enough work to do for everyone thanks to automation. Now is the time for bold initiatives; the elimination of poverty and the rise of a true welfare state. A 30 hr workweek and retirement at 50, maybe earlier, which will allow untold numbers, who don'tmake it beyond their 50's, to at least have a few years away from the oppression of the workplace. Even better, allow our rights to extend to the workplace, for as Richard Wolfe argues, it is folly to speak of rights that we must give up for the majority of our lives spent at work. Much can and should be done.

            •  Again (0+ / 0-)

              That might be good policy, or there might be ever more unintended consequences.

              Simple foreseeable unintended consequences are that your plan sends economic messages to people to have more children when the market seems to suggest that this is the last thing anyone should want. For example, I would argue that at minimum any family that can't economically support a child should not have one.

              Or, there may be resentment from those who work to those who do not which may manifest itself in surprising ways.

              Or, we cannot afford such a welfare state and companies (that ultimately pay all the bills) simply pack up and leave rather than pay for it. You could nationalize these companies, but that comes with its own problems.

              You are suggesting a control economy in which Intelligent People sit around conference tables and determine what is best for everyone and how much to take from people who are truly producing goods and services of value. While I agree with some social welfare plans, I don't think you can predict all outcomes.

              (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
              Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

              by Sparhawk on Sat May 04, 2013 at 10:20:40 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  well, we already know what we can predict (0+ / 0-)

                with our current path....capitalism is poison. Let's feed and shelter everyone, because we can, and see what happens when millions are free to use their full intellectual potential instead of slaving away in starvation. The best way to prevent overpopulation? Educate women. it works, with a proven track record. You are stil thinking in archaic terms of companies and bills; since money is a fiction created by states out of whole cloth. we don't really need to worry about who pays the bills; there doesn't have to be any bills. Paying bills is merely symbolic. Companies would be operated by worker coops. Imagine no shareholders. I urge you to start reading Richard Wolfe. I appreciate your thoughtful response, it's no secret that i disagree with most of what your write. As for a control economy, we haveone now  , but the folks in control have rigged it to favor a small group of plutocrats and fatcats.I suggest we replace that with democracy.....

          •  ACA did not cause these workers to lose their (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Nance, SadieSue, Laconic Lib, Clues

            jobs, it just shifted the cost from the government and the taxpayer back to the employer where it belongs.  The change we need is for the government to take a chunk of topline revenue instead of profits and pay for the things we need, healthcare, education, social safety net and infrastructure.  Let's quite fooling ourselves that businesses will treat employee's well and force them to through sufficient taxation to make this a country worth living in.

    •  can you remind us when this has ever happened? (6+ / 0-)
      All these things would solve themselves if the government would relax its hypervigilence over the economy and start doing what it's supposed to do, like prosecute financial crimes and keep the mechanics of the system running
      Where can we see an example of this libertarian utopia in action?

      Thanks.

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site