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View Diary: Is Apple about to pull off one of the largest tax dodges in history? (64 comments)

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  •  Wrongs done under the auspices of legality... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    ...are still wrongs.

    Trust me, I understand this perspective.  Between federal taxes, state taxes, sales taxes, payroll taxes, etc., I pay a crapload of taxes.  But I also hold the view that bitching about the amount of taxes I pay is akin to bitching about how successful I am, and generally an asshole thing to do.

    What I'm looking at here is a nation that has no new methods for generating tax revenue in the pipeline, and unable to generate revenue thanks to loopholes such as these.

    Apple is one of the most wildly successful companies in world history.  They also only paid a 9.8% tax rate in 2011.  On the overseas money, they paid 1.9%.  Our nation is getting cheated, whether it's legal or not, and to expect people and corporations to stop trying to pay their fair share when people say "Oh, that's totally cool, pay nowhere near the corporate tax rate, we still love you" rather than attempting to modify such behavior via shaming them is rather naive.

    Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. -- Clarke's Third Law

    by The Technomancer on Wed Apr 24, 2013 at 12:57:30 PM PDT

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    •  No. They aren't, (0+ / 0-)

      at least not in an objective sense. Wrong for you, certainly, and I would urge you to avoid claiming any deductions on your taxes. But Apple is doing the right thing for its shareholders to which it has a fiduciary duty. When the US government stops pouring tax revenue down ratholes like Afghanistan and stops killing people with drone strikes, and stops imprisoning people without trial for decades, then you can come back and talk to me about why anyone should ever send a penny more than they have to for this shitbox of a government.

      For if there is a sin against life, it consists perhaps not so much in despairing of life as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this life. - Albert Camus

      by Anne Elk on Wed Apr 24, 2013 at 01:17:42 PM PDT

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      •  You're woefully misusing the concept... (0+ / 0-)

        ...of fiduciary duty.  That binds the company to act in the interests of itself and its shareholders, but taxation is not part of this, lest every company that's not using a Double Irish setup is suddenly running afoul of the law.  Directors have a duty to the company, to not act in a matter which indicates a conflict of interest, and much act in good faith to return shareholder value.  The taxation regime is not a part of this legal concept -- no shareholder will win a suit claiming that a company could have paid less taxes and that not doing so is a breach of fiduciary duty.

        The non-sequitur about how the government spends its money is irrelevant -- if it's not those, it'll be something else you object to that justifies why the government should not receive the tax revenue it is entitled to.  Because obviously, rather than fixing the government, we should could I put this...starving the beast, right?

        Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. -- Clarke's Third Law

        by The Technomancer on Wed Apr 24, 2013 at 01:28:46 PM PDT

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        •  The Tech - I agree that few shareholders (0+ / 0-)

          are sophisticated enough to make the case that the officers and directors violated their fiduciary duties by not employing the most sophisticated tax saving strategies. However, the officers and directors of Apple do have a fiduciary duty to minimize its payment of taxes worldwide. Between Apples internal tax counsel and outside tax experts the management and the board will be exposed to tax strategies that do indeed lower worldwide taxes. They have a fiduciary duty to listen, become more knowledgeable, and pursue those options which lower taxes without putting Apple at risk.

          "let's talk about that"

          by VClib on Wed Apr 24, 2013 at 10:11:25 PM PDT

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