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View Diary: A Homeless Bill of Rights for California. (22 comments)

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  •  I don't want people to have a right to be homeless (9+ / 0-)

    I want people to have right to have a home.

    "To recognize error, to cut losses, to alter course, is the most repugnant option in government." Historian Barbara Tuchman

    by Publius2008 on Thu Apr 25, 2013 at 10:06:38 AM PDT

    •  That would be even better. (6+ / 0-)

      Still, some would voluntarily remain without a home in the traditional usage.

      A right to housing is definitely a much better goal, if likely far in the future for the US.

      •  Wouldn't it be nice... (6+ / 0-)
        The right to housing is codified as a human right in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights:

        "Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control." (article 25(1))
        •  Who provides it (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          The problem is that 'right' must be provided by other people.

          A right to free speech merely prohibits the government from bothering you.

          A right to housing/health care what have you obligates other people to do work on your behalf. Especially if you decide to have a kid: now your 'rights' obligate the rest of us to do even more work on your behalf. Eventually it impedes my right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.

          That's the trade off when you talk about rights.

          (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
          Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

          by Sparhawk on Thu Apr 25, 2013 at 11:28:25 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  OMG. (7+ / 0-)

            Those poor, poor doctors and other health professionals in countries with a right to health care.  They are FORCED, FORCED, to treat the poor and... the ill!  Why, they might catch an illness themselves!

            My heart goes out to these enslaved people.

            •  The doctors get paid (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              The rest of us are who has to pay.

              By elevating social welfare to a right, you are telling me that another person has an absolute right to take from my time and talents, which means that I have an absolute obligation to provide it.

              I support social welfare, but not in a way that I have an absolute obligation to provide it as you are suggesting. I don't owe other people something just because they exist.

              (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
              Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

              by Sparhawk on Thu Apr 25, 2013 at 12:05:30 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  They do. You do. That's the cost of living (3+ / 0-)
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                FogCityJohn, aitchdee, yella dawg

                in a society.

                Refusal to meet your basic social obligations at any time in the last 3 million years, up until just about... NOW.. would have left you abandoned by your band and helpless, alone in a situation where no hominid could survive for more than a month or two at best before succumbing to hunger or predation or illness or injury.

                Your only hope - and it likely would have been slim - would have been to find another group willing to accept you.  If you'd still refused to care for the sick or the lame among the group when possible, though, they'd have exiled you even quicker.

                That's how real Social Darwinism functioned.

                "Paid Activist" is an oxymoron.

                by JesseCW on Thu Apr 25, 2013 at 03:37:44 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  This is where we disagree (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:

                  And regardless of your opinions of relative obligations, at the end of the day, the producers always have the power to withhold the fruits of their labor to some degree or other.

                  There is some level at which people with jobs and income are willing to sacrifice for other people. Beyond that level, you get resentment and rebellion. People get the idea that no matter how hard they work to get ahead, the fruits of those efforts will always be expropriated to satisfy the needs of those who cannot or will not produce.

                  (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
                  Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

                  by Sparhawk on Thu Apr 25, 2013 at 04:12:13 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  So go Galt. (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    aitchdee, yella dawg

                    That's what you're talking about.

                    You know, I really don't understand why you bother to hang out on this site.  Your Randian views are repugnant to any progressive.  Surely there is a site where you can worship the Pauls père et fils and where people will applaud your utter lack of empathy and approve of your complete absence of social responsibility.

                    But that site isn't DK.

                    "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

                    by FogCityJohn on Thu Apr 25, 2013 at 09:35:13 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

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