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View Diary: An American war in Syria? NO! (123 comments)

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  •  Does the name Kitty Genovese ring a bell? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lostboyjim, petulans, sturunner

    It should.

    "None of our business" is never a good excuse when you have the ability to stop harm.  We have a lot of options to help end this we are not pursuing

    Touch all that arises with a spirit of compassion

    by Mindful Nature on Fri Apr 26, 2013 at 06:47:57 AM PDT

    •  Like what? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      artmartin

      Give at least a little detail.

      •  She was murdered in view of 38 neighbors (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        petulans, sturunner

        Who thought it was "none of their business" and not one of her neighbors bothered to call the police. This notion of ignoring harm you can act to prevent because there is nothing in it for you is a lousy moral principle  

        Touch all that arises with a spirit of compassion

        by Mindful Nature on Fri Apr 26, 2013 at 07:41:42 AM PDT

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        •  yo, MN, we know who KG was (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          joanneleon

          back when it happened, even.  Some of us,  anyway.

          The question was what are your options for dealing with Syria,  not who KG was.

          don't always believe what you think

          by claude on Fri Apr 26, 2013 at 07:57:29 AM PDT

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          •  I was asked who she was (0+ / 0-)

            So I provided more detail

            But providing better arms, logistical and intelligence support, civilian administration support, and enforcing a no fly zone and possibly air strikes are a set of options to pursue that do not involve invading

            Touch all that arises with a spirit of compassion

            by Mindful Nature on Fri Apr 26, 2013 at 08:49:22 AM PDT

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            •  Arms to who? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              protectspice

              Support what civilians? Air strikes on what?

              Who are we to decide that? It's not our country, it's THEIRS. It's their fight.

              Sanctions and a no fly zone, fine. Anything else, no.

              It's like getting involved in a family fight. No matter what side the outsider picks, they're screwed.

              •  Here is the issue (0+ / 0-)

                A couple of simplified breakdowns. The FSA and allies are in opposition to a dictator who has used chemical weapons and other nasties on the people of Syria.  The family fight analogy only works if your cant clearly find a position. This is more like a family with an abusive husband who beats the crap out of the wife and kids.  I don't think "it's a family matter" is the appropriate response.   We can judge by actions, and the fact that it is on the other side of some arbitrary line makes no difference.  We are all humans after all

                Now, the FSA and allies control some territory but are having difficulty administering it, while Islanists are better set up and organized to do it.  In those areas free of Assad's control we can and should help restore basic services.  

                Touch all that arises with a spirit of compassion

                by Mindful Nature on Fri Apr 26, 2013 at 09:47:06 AM PDT

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                •  The ultimate irony in all this... (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Mindful Nature

                  ...is that Assad is the last bastion of the Baathist movement, whose original goals,  if not the means to achieve them, don't sound at all half bad from a progressive standpoint.

                  "Democracy" can be a two-edged sword, if the popular will is to, for instance, embrace theocracy and live under Sharia Law.

                  I, old commie that I am, have come to cast a jaundiced eye over my own knee-jerk reaction that "popular uprising" has to automatically be a noble cause and be supported on general principle.  

                  I happen to think that a "modern" secular state with development that benefits a lot of its citizens and keeps its oligarchs somewhat under control is actually preferable, even if it takes some stick (h/t Francis Urquhart)  to keep the reactionaries from disrupting things with their anti-modernist fanaticism.

                  Baathism is old enough now to have thoroughly matured and become corrupted by the usual culprits of greed and tribe and excess.  It gets so bad that Sharia looks good.  But once upon a time the existing order got so bad that Baathism looked good.

                  don't always believe what you think

                  by claude on Fri Apr 26, 2013 at 08:28:45 PM PDT

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    •  Except (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      happymisanthropy, protectspice

      in Genovese's case those were her neighbors or the people who lived right there where it occurred.

      Syria is not our neighbor. This is not happening in our backyard. We are already deployed, overtly or covertly, in MANY other countries.

      There are other very wealthy countries right in that neighborhood who have military (mostly bought from us) and have an interest and are already involved but using proxies.

      Knock it off with the guilt trips.  Our supposed humanitarian interventions are hardly ever really for humanitarian reasons and the people who are intervened upon rarely end up in a better situation.

      And if you feel so strongly about intervening, go sign up with the Free Syrian Army and go fight it yourself, and risk your own blood and treasure, not the blood of young Americans who signed up to protect this country (or to get health coverage or college tuition or a job which they had no other way of getting) and the treasure that, as more of it is spent on wars, more is taken away from people in poverty and suffering here.

      Go for it!  I'm sure they are taking recruits.


      "Justice is a commodity"

      by joanneleon on Fri Apr 26, 2013 at 08:55:10 AM PDT

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    •  Only in this case (0+ / 0-)

      there is no innocent victim.   It's gang war.  Bloods vs Crips.  Best case scenario both sides lose, and they can both go fuck themselves.

      You may think that. I couldn't possibly comment.-- Francis Urqhart

      by Johnny Q on Fri Apr 26, 2013 at 11:28:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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