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View Diary: Another bird flu to watch for... H7N9 in China (178 comments)

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  •  So (0+ / 0-)

    A small risk of feeling poorly for a few days, and having several episodes where you sit on the floor for a while
    vs
    a small risk of getting a disease that will make you feel wretched for a week or more and has a 15 to 60 percent chance of killing you...

    I totally see where you're coming from.

    "The problems of incompetent, corrupt, corporatist government are incompetence, corruption and corporatism, not government." Jerome a Paris

    by Orinoco on Sun Apr 28, 2013 at 06:55:43 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  The issue is what else the vaccine could do. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jrooth, kurious, OllieGarkey

      If I just felt crappy, that would be one thing and not unexpected since the vaccination stimulates your immune system.  (Much of the symptoms of infection is from your immune system kicking in, not from the infection per se.)  But the vertigo?  Why would my otoliths get wacked out of place.  As I mentioned above in another comment, I've had the flu before and never had vertigo.  

      The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

      by accumbens on Sun Apr 28, 2013 at 07:20:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Inflammation. (0+ / 0-)

        Inflammation is one of the things that happens when you get sick. You had an immune reaction which led to inflammation of your inner ear.

        That gave you vertigo. It's a standard immune reaction, and it happens in ear infections all the time. Inner ear infections are almost always viral.

        And that's what happened with your immune system. It thought that you had a viral ear infection.

        Here's a whole page on labyrinthitis and vestibular neuritis, infection of the inner ear.

        You'll note that one of the symptoms is Vertigo.

        An Fhirinn an aghaidh an t'Saoghail. (The truth against the world.) Is treasa tuath na tighearna. (The common people are mightier than the lords.)

        by OllieGarkey on Sun Apr 28, 2013 at 07:41:39 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Also, did you try taking something like ibuprofin (0+ / 0-)

          or acetaminophen?

          An NSAID might have helped with the vertigo, especially if you took a higher dose.

          An Fhirinn an aghaidh an t'Saoghail. (The truth against the world.) Is treasa tuath na tighearna. (The common people are mightier than the lords.)

          by OllieGarkey on Sun Apr 28, 2013 at 07:44:41 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I developed an allergy to NSAIDs in my 50s. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            OllieGarkey, tb mare

            After a lifetime of taking aspirin I started getting angioedema (lips, eyelids swelling) in response to it and ibuprofen.  So, no, I couldn't take an anti-inflammatory.

            The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

            by accumbens on Sun Apr 28, 2013 at 07:48:47 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Okay, you have a unique immune system. (4+ / 0-)

              If you're the kind of person that develops these kinds of drug allergies and has other issues, then you are absolutely correct to be wary about vaccines because of your own medical history.

              An Fhirinn an aghaidh an t'Saoghail. (The truth against the world.) Is treasa tuath na tighearna. (The common people are mightier than the lords.)

              by OllieGarkey on Sun Apr 28, 2013 at 07:54:05 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  At the risk of putting my medical history online, (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                OllieGarkey, kurious, tb mare

                I should also say I have psoriasis - an autoimmue disease - which I developed in my 50s.  Although it's pretty well under control, I've wondered whether my response to the flu shot wasn't somehow the result of adding an acute immune response on top of a chronically activated immune system.  A perfect cytokine storm.

                The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

                by accumbens on Sun Apr 28, 2013 at 08:09:51 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Yeah, people with autoimmune stuff have reactions (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  accumbens

                  to vaccines sometimes. I don't know about psoriasis, I'm not a doctor, but I know that with AIDS vaccines are a no no.

                  It's a possibility and you should definitely talk to someone who knows the medicine way better than an amateur like me.

                  An Fhirinn an aghaidh an t'Saoghail. (The truth against the world.) Is treasa tuath na tighearna. (The common people are mightier than the lords.)

                  by OllieGarkey on Sun Apr 28, 2013 at 08:18:13 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  A nurse I worked with couldn't get small pox... (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  OllieGarkey, accumbens

                  vaccine (at the time healthcare workers were being urged to get that vaccine) because she had psoriasis.

            •  Interesting (0+ / 0-)

              My wife developed a similar allergy at around the same age. The only thing she can take is Tylenol. Anything else triggers a massive outbreak of hives.

        •  Yes, that's what I figured too, and since it's (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          OllieGarkey, jrooth, kurious

          not a typical response, I'm concerned what other surprises my immune system might have for me.

          The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

          by accumbens on Sun Apr 28, 2013 at 07:50:35 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  My grandmother died of the flu (8+ / 0-)

      during the epidemic in 1918.  She was 28 years old.  That is always in the back of my mind if I ever consider not getting my annual vaccine.  

      The last time I had the flu was 1990.  I was sick over a week.  I didn't get a shot during the year of the swine flu epidemic because none were available.  I live in the DC metropolitan area and my doctor never received the vaccine.  As a teacher, this worries me as I am constantly exposed to sick kids.  That year, the school system set up a clinic for the students to receive the vaccine during the school day.  Teachers were not included.  At least with the kids being vaccinated, I didn't get sick.  

       My 29 year old daughter won't get the vaccine.  She uses a lot of alternative medicine to keep her immune system strong but she got the flu and missed work for a week.  With no paid sick leave, she ended up not being able to pay her rent that month.

      “It is the job of the artist to think outside the boundaries of permissible thought and dare say things that no one else will say."—Howard Zinn

      by musiclady on Sun Apr 28, 2013 at 07:57:18 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  well... (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        accumbens, jrooth, wu ming, denise b, vicki
        She uses a lot of alternative medicine to keep her immune system strong
        there really is no such thing.

        We have a name for a "strong" immune system, It's called "allergies". Or in some cases "autoimmune disease".

        Thank goodness most (if not all) of the stuff sold doesn't work. We'd be a lot sicker if it did.

        "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

        by Greg Dworkin on Sun Apr 28, 2013 at 08:04:02 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Agree with you. (0+ / 0-)

          By alternative medicine--I should clarify--mainly eating foods that are high in certain immune boosting nutrients--vitamin C, garlic etc.  Basically, she has changed her lifestyle to include an extremely healthy diet, regular exercise and sufficient sleep.  This is a kid who caught everything as a child and she hasn't been getting sick the last few years so the life style changes have helped her a lot.  As far as the flu thing goes--I have that discussion with her every year.  She is just hard headed and it is frightening to me given that she is uninsured.  I try to approach it from that angle--that she will end up with medical bills that she can't afford, not to mention the lost time at work.  I also remind her of her great grandmother who died when my Dad was a little over a year old.  It's frustrating, but what does a parent do when their adult children develop minds of their own!

          “It is the job of the artist to think outside the boundaries of permissible thought and dare say things that no one else will say."—Howard Zinn

          by musiclady on Sun Apr 28, 2013 at 09:11:46 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  The times I got the flu were when my kids were (5+ / 0-)

        little and going to day care or elementary school.  I used to call them "germ merchants."  They'd get sick for a few days and I'd be in bed for a week.  I've since forgiven them for it.

        The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

        by accumbens on Sun Apr 28, 2013 at 08:04:31 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yup--We teachers end up with all kinds of (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Lorikeet, accumbens, vicki

          fun illnesses.  I've had hand-foot-mouth, ringworm, impetigo and various stomach viruses courtesy of my little classroom darlings.  So far I've managed to avoid getting pink eye and head lice.

          “It is the job of the artist to think outside the boundaries of permissible thought and dare say things that no one else will say."—Howard Zinn

          by musiclady on Sun Apr 28, 2013 at 09:13:31 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Alternative medicine (0+ / 0-)

        I wouldn't call this alternative medicine, but more common sense. Make sure your daughter is washing her hands (with soap) as much as she can. And, suggest to her to try keeping her hands from touching her face and mouth, which we do unconsciously a lot.

        There are many proponents that believe our lack of vitamin D in the winter is the reason we have flu seasons during the cold weather. (You would think we would get less sick when people are hunkered down in their homes.) Vitamin D3 supplements are one way to get D, especially in the colder regions of the country.

        The efficacy of the flu vaccine is too low for me to consider it as an option.

        •  agree with most of that (0+ / 0-)

          definite vit D deficiency in winter in the northeast, with a very loose link to flu susceptibility.

          But supplementing doesn't make you flu proof.

          "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

          by Greg Dworkin on Mon Apr 29, 2013 at 04:59:45 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Best weapon against the flu is (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Greg Dworkin

            thoroughly washing your hands and staying away from pediatric physicians:

            Hand hygiene among doctors is even worse, with 73 percent of pediatric ICU physicians claiming that they soaped up between patients, but when the MDs were secretly observed, only 10 percent actually washed. If doctors and nurses were more diligent about hand hygiene, up to 80,000 Americans lives would be saved each year.
            Nothing makes you flu-proof, but in my opinion, based on actual data, money would be better spent on teaching better hygiene rather than flu shots.
            •  heh (0+ / 0-)

              handwashing is hugely important, even/especially with doctors. Even if that data is dated.

              The correct conclusion form your post, of course, is try and avoid an ICU. (Duh.)

              But that of course doesn't set up an either/or  between handwashing and vaccines. Or vit D and vaccines. or anything else and vaccines.

              Your anti-vax crusade is misguided.

              "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

              by Greg Dworkin on Mon Apr 29, 2013 at 05:35:03 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Again...intimidation (0+ / 0-)

                Sounds like we are heading down this road again, Greg.

                As we established earlier, you are financially benefitting (directly and indirectly) by promoting vaccinations. If anything, you are using Daily Kos as a commercial site to both benefit and promote your business.

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