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View Diary: Krugman: "Bush lied us into war." (231 comments)

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  •  I'm curious. (2+ / 0-)
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    Eyesbright, emelyn
    And while we've withdrawn troops, as the public is sick of it, we've increased the number of nations in which we bomb with drones. Expanding the war, though not the number of people conducting it.
    What event or events demarcate the time before the war was expanded and the time after? In other words, at what point did the war expand? What countries are we bombing with drones that we did not before?
    Iraq, in 2008, mandating US troop withdrawal. If Bush had been elected for a third term, he would have been forced to withdraw troops, because that was the agreement we had.
    I'm sorry. Do you live in the alternative universe in which Bush was elected to a third term? You're essentially arguing that the cessation of the Iraq war was a done deal, and that Obama deserves little if any credit for it despite opposing the war from the beginning, and that Bush, by implication, would not have expanded the war as Obama has? If you do live in that alternative universe, I have to say that I'm shocked that Mr. Bush decided not to invade Iraq. Because I'm fairly certain that's what would have happened in the universe I inhabit had he been given a third term.

    In reality, our involvements have wound down under this President. That's pretty much a fact that a lot of people deservedly credit him for.

    •  The Iraq presence was a done deal. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      protectspice, pgm 01, Laconic Lib

      The United States had signed the Agreement that we would move our troops out when we did. No matter who was President they would have moved them out.

      Because of the force of the Status of Forces Agreement.

      Which was signed in 2008.

      Maybe a graphic re: Pakistan might clear up things:
      Pay particular attention to before 2009 and after.

      The War expanded when we increased, by several times as you've just witnessed, the bombing of Pakistan. Then added the bombings in Yemen, Somalia, Libya. We've also been aiding the war in Syria, the French in Mali, and have sent military advisers to 35 nations in Africa.

      This latter in the context of AFRICOM's "shift to more kinetic missions". Which itself is a secondary consideration to the overall shift to China as our focus, as promised by the President in 2011.

      US will shift focus from Middle East to Asia Pacific, Barack Obama declares
      ...Mr Obama and Julia Gillard this week unveiled a new military agreement which includes plans to deploy up to 2500 US Marines in Darwin – a move that marked America's most extensive reach into the region since the Vietnam War. ...
      Two months later, the US announced it would deploy 60% of its fleet in the Pacific/Asia which nobody doubts is about China. Least of all the Chinese.

      When one nation goes into another nation and drops bombs that would be an act of War, according to all pre-Obama history. Maybe now there's a new kind of phrase for that kind of thing.

      That the Establishment realizes that they can't get away with pushing troops everywhere, as neither the people nor the budget can handle it, has meant that we are now relying on drones, special forces, and getting our NATO partners, with our direct military support (flying them into Mali, etc), ...

      Hmm. More bombings, and in more nations, while helping NATO to fight more wars in even more nations, while expanding "kinetic missions" in 35 African nations, while expanding military presence against China,

      ... so now, in this glorious time, 2+2 = less than 2, eh?

      Actual Democrats is the surest, quickest. route to More Democrats

      by Jim P on Sun Apr 28, 2013 at 02:05:34 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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