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View Diary: Anti-Capitalist Meetup: We Aren't Crazy. Capitalism Is. (68 comments)

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  •  Good suggestion on what the competitive (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Diane Gee, Justina

    personality types could do to meet the need to 'compete'.  There are some people who get serious kicks out of getting the highest test score in the class, or run the fastest mile in the state, as examples of competitiveness.

    "Extreme competitivism is taught, and generosity can be too."  I think that there is some natural tendencies to either and/or both in many people.  The degree of competitiveness and/or generosity may be teachable.

    Maybe I didn't use a good example for the medical thing cause I do agree that things should be durable and last, no matter what the object is.  Maybe something like a private room vs 2 to a room at the hospital, or the standard is when 75% of the cartilage is gone is when surgery is done  (actually, they generally won't do surgery until it's completely gone and has been for a few years), but if you have the supplemental, you can get it at 60% and paying a bit more for it as well??

    •  I think it shouldn't be (4+ / 0-)
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      JayRaye, Urizen, NY brit expat, Justina

      paying for it at all.  :)

      ..the smoker you drink, the player you get....

      by Diane Gee on Sun Apr 28, 2013 at 05:00:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The last place there should be competition is (8+ / 0-)

      within the health care system. As a health care worker, I want all of my pts to have excellent 1st class care regardless of who they are or how much they make.

      There is plenty of room for competition within Socialism: sports, doing the most good for others, music, spelling bees...the list is endless. But competing to see who gets 1st class health care should not be on that list.... ever.

      WE NEVER FORGET Modestino Valentino who lost his life in the Paterson Silk Strike

      by JayRaye on Sun Apr 28, 2013 at 05:06:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Why this need to have a hierarchy of wealth? (5+ / 0-)
      •  Because some really do work harder than others (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Sparhawk

        and it deserves recoginition in some visible way and not just being able to keep your job......

        •  It is a false assumption that only (5+ / 0-)

          capitalism rewards hard work and affords recognition. Other economic systems can offer rewards and recognition.

        •  Do you think that those that earn higher wages (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Diane Gee, JayRaye

          work harder? Do you think that men work harder than women and that white people work harder than people of colour? People are not paid wages by how hard they work unless they are doing piecework and that is not the case outside of sweatshops for the most part. So this is a fallacious argument; Capitalism does not pay wages based on how hard you work or farmers and coal miners would have the highest wages; instead wage differentials are based upon other things, Adam Smith knew this and wrote a whole chapter in the wealth of nations on it, you should read it.

          "Hegel noticed somewhere that all great world history facts and people so to speak twice occur. He forgot to add: the one time as tragedy, the other time as farce" Karl Marx, The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte .

          by NY brit expat on Mon Apr 29, 2013 at 03:05:26 AM PDT

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          •  Of course not. Being a contract employee is (0+ / 0-)

            pretty much piece work in my opinion, or at least in what it is that I do.  But, I do think that, if all things equal (same job duties), the person working 30 hours should make more than the person who works 20.  That's what I generally meant by some work harder than others.  Hard rock mining is completely different than computer programming and both deserve at least a living wage.

            •  Labor's job as a movement (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              JayRaye, NY brit expat

              would be to better negotiate the contract you made with them.

              ..the smoker you drink, the player you get....

              by Diane Gee on Mon Apr 29, 2013 at 05:41:39 AM PDT

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            •  That is pay being proportional to hours (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Diane Gee, JayRaye

              worked, that is not necessarily those that work harder. There are many reasons why people work part-time, women often because they need to care for children and extended family. During the time that they work, they work hard especially compared to pay as they are often in traditional women's labour which is underpaid.

              With large amounts of unemployment, wouldn't it be more sensible to reduce work hours while keeping incomes up? So that instead of 40 hrs+  work weeks, people can work 35 hrs. w/o pay loss. That would also enable those that are desperate for work to earn a living (those are the vast majority on benefits).  High levels of productivity mean that we need less workers and that leads to persistent unemployment; sharing work hours would mean more leisure time for all and people could do things that matter to them.

              "Hegel noticed somewhere that all great world history facts and people so to speak twice occur. He forgot to add: the one time as tragedy, the other time as farce" Karl Marx, The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte .

              by NY brit expat on Mon Apr 29, 2013 at 10:45:40 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  Competitive behavior (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Diane Gee, JayRaye

      such as it may exist (and indeed, has been artificially elevated by capitalism above all other human traits) along with other natural human traits such as mutual aid (even competitive people suspend this behavior to spontaneously help their families and neighbors) does not need to be institutionalized to form the basis of society.

      "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

      by ZhenRen on Mon Apr 29, 2013 at 10:51:47 AM PDT

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    •  Working hard is just one form of contribution (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Diane Gee, JayRaye

      Unfortunately, capitalism elevates only this one form of giving to society. It rarely acknowledges other valuable traits that keep society functioning as a whole.

      What about other traits? What about the lazy worker who invents brilliant innovations, but doesn't do a lick of unpleasant work (leaving that to the coal miners, the sewage workers, etc)? What about the slow worker, who is so strong he can lift boulders no one else can budge? What about the average worker who makes the workplace a joy to be in, due to her sense of humor, without whom the world would be less colorful and harmonious? What about the person who actually LIKES doing the lowly jobs no one else wants to do, but who is lacking in any other talent, and without whom the more talented person would have to shovel the manure from horse stalls or empty the hospital bed pans?

      The old adage that it takes a village is still true. No one accomplishes anything alone. Even a brilliant physicist makes her discoveries on the shoulders of all that came before, including her parents, her teachers, the school grants, the history of all who contributed in the past to make that one step forward possible.

      The notion that anything is accomplished by just one factor (hard work, for example) is illusory. It is the combination of traits of the community that creates progress. It is impossible to separate one factor from all the other contributions in order to calculate the monetary value of that factor.

      My father was an extremely hard worker. I've no idea where he got his energy, given his health problems (which weren't paid for by insurance). As time went on, he couldn't do the work, as his health deteriorated.

      Should he thus be punished for his health problems (which stemmed from the poverty during his youth)?

      "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

      by ZhenRen on Mon Apr 29, 2013 at 11:13:29 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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