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View Diary: When Is a Hoax More Than 6 Inches of Lies? Consider the NRA. (34 comments)

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  •  So defensive gun uses only count if you (16+ / 0-)

    pull the trigger?

    Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

    by KVoimakas on Mon Apr 29, 2013 at 02:03:20 PM PDT

    •  One claim of defensive use was really hard to (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Sandino, murrayewv

      accept. It was proposed by the young woman who testified to congress that the AR-15 was her weapon of choice. She claimed to represent many thousands of young mothers who would also choose the AR15, to defend themselves and multiple children when they are home alone, against marauding bands of criminals.

      NRA hammers away with fantasic claims related to violent crime
      What we know about firearm defensive use, is hard to reconcile with her fantasy. 1) we know that a gun locked up in a safe separate from its ammo is hard to justify as an immediate tool for self defense, 2) unsecured firearms, especially if they are loaded, in the home pose a significant hazard of unintentionally shootings by children and suicides by teens, and that it's impossible to carry an AR-15 around the house in a hip or shoulder holster while caring for children.

      No. .

      But we were supposed to accept her testimony as legitimately representing young mothers, who live in an environment so dangerous, yet one from which they have no choice to move away to some place safer, and simply must be allowed to carry a loaded AR15 across their back while they look after their homes and children.

      No one bothered to ask what she would do with the loaded firearm when she takes a shower. Does she leave the young children unattended with the firearm? Or does she lock the firearm up in the safe?

      I try to give people the benefit of the doubt but that one really strained credibility.

      "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

      by LilithGardener on Mon Apr 29, 2013 at 07:20:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Having been trained to arms by my father (4+ / 0-)

        along with my older siblings, when the time came when a gang tried to break into our home, that training saved our lives.

        Will my testimony appease your arbitrary standards?

        When my sister and I saw the intruders trying to break down our front door, I ran upstairs and told her we needed to load our fathers firearms.  I loaded the 357 and she got the 12 gauge ready.

        When they finally broke the door down, I was standing right in front of them, gun loaded and in my right hand pointing downwards to the floor next to my leg. There was about 12 on the porch and another 6 or 7 in the front yard of our home.  

        I gave them a choice leave now or take another step and be shot, as I pulled the weapon up and pointed it directly at the leader.  He stepped back and then appeared as though he was about to try to take the weapon from me when my sister cocked the 12 gauge.  They fled.

        No shot was fired and no one was killed.  I was 13 yrs old and a firearm saved 4 lives that day.

        Does this count?

        As for you meaningless question about being in the shower.  Firearm safety, training and exposure saves people's lives.   Can a firearm save you ever time, no. But does that me people shouldn't try to take responsibility for their lives and the lives of their children?

        Being trained to have "situational awareness" can give a potential victim the ability to think clearly and act immediately, without hesitation.  The weapon doesn't have to be in the bathroom with them.  It doesn't have to be at their side every moment.  In fact, I doubt that would be feasible. But shouldn't they try to defend themselves?  It's that the idea behind the anti's position: "Just because it won't stop all crime doesn't mean we shouldn't pass laws."

        Is there any difference here?  Isn't it the same thought? Better to do something than nothing, right?

        BTW, it was because of those events in my life that I have never owned a firearm, I chose not to become a killer.  What would my life become had I killed 7 people that day?

        It's a choice I've made, my choice.  

        That's what I call freedom:

        Making a choice and living with the consequences.

        To each, their own.

        -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

        by gerrilea on Mon Apr 29, 2013 at 10:52:53 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, of course it counts - as 1 anecdote (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Sandino

          Yes, of course it counts as one unverified anecdote that a band of about 20 criminals sought to invade an occupied property for some unstated reason.

          I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. If your story is true it does show that firearms, with proper training and deployed by people who are fully awake and are not under the influence of alcohol, can, in fact, be used as a deterrent. But so can a large dog, or several dogs.

          But that is not the argument being made.

          "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

          by LilithGardener on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 04:27:30 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  My firsthand real life experience that changed (0+ / 0-)

            my complete perspective on violence is an "anecdote" and unverified????

            Really???

            Well, I do not need your approval.  In fact, the "reasons" why that gang tried to break into our home is immaterial, isn't it?

            After I called the police, they came and TOOK the only defense we had AND refused to arrest the intruders.  

            This was Binghamton, New York, circa 1977.  My father spent 2 yrs getting his firearms back from the gun grabbers that left myself and older sister defenseless.

            Oh, that's right they have no duty to protect the individual!

            Justices Rule Police Do Not Have a Constitutional Duty to Protect Someone

            Note that after 35+ yrs later, I'm still angry at their irresponsible actions.

            And OF COURSE your point was to attempt to discredit the Congressional Testimony, as you just again attempted to belittle MY testimony NOW.

            Can't have facts getting in the way of your bigotry.

            -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

            by gerrilea on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 06:11:05 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  No, gerrilea (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Sandino

              you are the one who fails to accept the definition of anecdote or to reconcile your contradictory claims.

              I don't know you or anything about you. All dailykos knows is that you report today, under the influence of whatever is driving you today, that you freely choose to not own any firearms.

              Today you report a dramatic story and by inference claim it as THE REASON you freely choose not to own any guns.

              IIRC, in a prior comment you claim to be a person  prohibited from owning guns in the state where you live.

              There is no way for anyone at dailykos to know whether either claim is true. But the two claims contradict each other.

              And no, pointing that out doesn't make one a bigot.

              "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

              by LilithGardener on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 06:22:52 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Hon, I've been discussing this for years. (0+ / 0-)

                Just because you may have missed it doesn't mean squat.

                And I really don't have any contradictory positions here.

                I chose not to own a firearm, this doesn't change the fact that my created government has denied me a right I once had.

                The abrogation of rights is not a progressive value, IMO.

                The concepts are really, really simple:

                freedom of choice
                innocent until proven guilty

                 you are the one who fails to accept the definition of anecdote
                Really???  Is this some Orwellian Doublespeak now?
                World English Dictionary
                anecdote (ˈænɪkˌdəʊt) [Click for IPA pronunciation guide]
                 —n
                    a short usually amusing account of an incident, esp a personal or biographical one

                [C17: from Medieval Latin anecdota unpublished items, from Greek anekdotos unpublished, from an- + ekdotos published, from ekdidonai, from ek- out + didonai to give]

                Some things in my life might be amusing but those events surely were not.

                Your attempts to belittle and obfuscate is insulting.

                -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                by gerrilea on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 07:02:03 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  People determined to feel insulted sometimes (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Sandino

                  succeed.

                  Please proceed,

                  to have a lovely day.

                  "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                  by LilithGardener on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 07:22:55 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  You've followed me around before and (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Sandino

                  made false accusations. Please just stop.

                  I'm sorry I wasted my time, and took the bait. Won't make that mistake again.

                  "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                  by LilithGardener on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 07:25:21 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Who's playing "victim" now? (0+ / 0-)

                    I can't "follow you around" on a blog.  We both ended up in the same diary, WOW.

                    You made a statement, I replied.

                    Wow again.

                    Are your statements not meant to be replied to? If that's the case, could you mention it to management.

                    -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                    by gerrilea on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 07:43:27 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

    •  Yes, just like negligent homicide (0+ / 0-)

      so many deadly gun accidents are not reported just because the toddler didn't actually pull the trigger.

    •  Actually, only if the attacker deceases. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      oldpunk, theatre goon, KVoimakas, gerrilea

      Rather a dishonest use of a stat there.

      Or, perhaps, utterly ignorant of the definition of "self-defense"... >shrug<

      Your hate-mail will be graded.

      by PavePusher on Mon Apr 29, 2013 at 11:32:18 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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