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View Diary: To the Religious Right Trashing Jason Collins: He Was Born Gay. You Were Taught to Hate. (118 comments)

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  •  Well, masculinity and aggressiveness are closely (18+ / 0-)

    tied in our culture. And that aggressiveness transfers to the realm of sex. To put it bluntly, a lot of men flip out about gay men because they see sex as dominance and they fear that a gay man would necessarily try to dominate them. A classic case of projection. Those who are most homophobic are generally those who are most misogynist. And honestly, they are probably the most likely to support rape culture and to actually rape.

    If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

    by AoT on Mon Apr 29, 2013 at 03:41:13 PM PDT

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    •  Actually, your sentence should go (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dave in Northridge

      "Those who are most homophobic are generally those who are most misandrist." I mean, since they're hating on men, in general and in this specific instance.

      Of course, if it were a classic case of projection, as you rightly point out, then neither would apply since the haters themselves would just be gay and unable to deal with it. That they would be more likely to support rape culture or to actually rape is a bit of a side-bar if it were a case of projection, but you could make a correlation since terrible people who believe terrible things tend to act that way too.

      "When facts are reported, they deny the value of evidence; when the evidence is produced, they declare it inconclusive." -- Augustine, in The City of God.

      by Zek J Evets on Mon Apr 29, 2013 at 05:21:31 PM PDT

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      •  No, it shouldn't go like that (8+ / 0-)

        And I think you missed the point. It's not misandry because they don't hate men, they hate gay men.

        It's projection because they assume that everyone approaches sex as an act of domination like they do. So they aren't necessarily gay, although they might be. And the support of rape culture is not a side bar at all, it's central to the issue because of the dominance involved. They think men should have the right to have sex with their object of desire and as such are disgusted by the fact that someone could find them attractive and want to dominate them.

        If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

        by AoT on Mon Apr 29, 2013 at 05:40:25 PM PDT

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        •  I think you hit the nail on the head there. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mrsgoo, AoT, Dave in Northridge

          They're either insecure because of the projection of their fears of extreme dominance, or because they're just insecure about their own sexuality and believe they have to out macho everyone else to prove they're not at ALL attracted to guys (... even if, well... they might be... y'know... a little).

          All of this applies to the hyper-evangelical macho culture in general. They doth protest too much.

          "Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob." -- Franklin D. Roosevelt

          by Kombema on Mon Apr 29, 2013 at 08:12:28 PM PDT

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          •  I think you are both so right on this. I just wish (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            AoT, Dave in Northridge, Kombema

            folks would get the F over it!!!

            if a habitat is flooded, the improvement for target fishes increases by an infinite percentage...because a habitat suitability index that is even a tiny fraction of 1 is still infinitely higher than zero, which is the suitability of dry land to fishes.

            by mrsgoo on Mon Apr 29, 2013 at 09:47:24 PM PDT

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    •  I dunno. I got a guy here - so homophobic and (4+ / 0-)

      racist that the stuff that comes out his mouth is sometimes mind blowing. Not a religious nut at all. And he is fairly intelligent. But he hates on gays, hispanics, blacks.... oh just anybody and everybody that ain't lily white and male. sigh. I guess he is that old white boy demo that 20-30 yrs from now.........won't be around anymore!. I think you nailed most of it right here....

      To put it bluntly, a lot of men flip out about gay men because they see sex as dominance and they fear that a gay man would necessarily try to dominate them. A classic case of projection.
      That is exactly how my hubbie sees it. He is not threatened by "teh gayz" and it shows. He could care less what folks do together in private. This other guy - he just flips out about teh gayz. It actually comes across like he is scared to death of gay males.

      if a habitat is flooded, the improvement for target fishes increases by an infinite percentage...because a habitat suitability index that is even a tiny fraction of 1 is still infinitely higher than zero, which is the suitability of dry land to fishes.

      by mrsgoo on Mon Apr 29, 2013 at 09:45:54 PM PDT

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    •  Look at the phrase, (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dave in Northridge

      "having it rammed down our throats."  

      There's at least a 50% chance it'd go the other way.

      Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

      by Loge on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 05:51:52 AM PDT

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