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View Diary: Frenzied gun buyers: scared of the wrong things. (121 comments)

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  •  Urban/rural is a totally different perspective (11+ / 0-)

    In rural areas people have guns because of 4-legged predators, not 2-legged predators.

    City people think that the residents of rural areas, with many guns, have those guns because they are afraid of people.  That is not even close to the truth and is projection on the part of urban dwellers.  Rural residents are not afraid of their neighbors because the incidence of violent crime is practically nil--we are just not exposed to it except when we watch the news feed from the cities.

    Gun violence is seen as a City problem by rural residents because most of the major crimes occur in urban areas.

    The only thing rural residents are "afraid" of, is that urban residents will (and I quote  exactly as I've heard it), "Take away our rights to own a gun".  And quite frankly, you cannot deny that it is part of the liberal meme to ban certain types of guns, and as the rural residents see it, one gun is pretty much like any other.  

    I'm not even saying how I feel about the AWB, I'm just telling you how my neighbors think.

    •  shooting animals with guns.... (5+ / 0-)

      as hunting or self defense is long recognized as a reason to own a firearm.  That isn't why we have so many handguns though.  

      I want no part of firearms personally. I have looked over the risk/benefit equation and conclude they are a risk for me.  I don't feel safer in a world of (90%) men who are heavily armed and living in the shadow of their fear.  A subset of heavily armed men intend to harm others with their weapons- and almost tell themselves it is self-defense.  That is the justification in most gang shootings.

      It takes some courage to buy a gun and go about with it on your person planning to pull it out and defend yourself and your family and your property at any moment.  It makes people hypervigilent about their surroundings, very aware of every threat, filled with adrenaline.  I just don't think this is a rational response for the threat level most people live with and frankly, emotionally corrosive.  I worry for people who do this to themselves.

      My spouse works with vets with PTSD and this is their response to the horrors of war- check locks, walk a perimeter.  It is the mindset cultivated by this generation's NRA, not the response of people who enjoy hunting or seek to fight off predators, or even a firearms "enthusiast", who like collecting and shooting firearms and treat them with respect.  The mindset that says we need to be armed so we can overthrow the government is very troubling of course.  and these folks are on the left and the right.  My personal credo of nonviolence find it hard to accept this response to a turbulent world.  

      You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad. Aldous Huxley

      by murrayewv on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 02:54:34 AM PDT

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      •  Interesting assumptions.... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        theatre goon, CarlosJ, ban nock
        It makes people hypervigilent about their surroundings, very aware of every threat, filled with adrenaline.  I just don't think this is a rational response for the threat level most people live with and frankly, emotionally corrosive.  I worry for people who do this to themselves.
        ...but little evidence in sight.  Your concern is noted.
        The mindset that says we need to be armed so we can overthrow the government is very troubling of course.
        Syrians and Libyans take note, eh?
        My personal credo of nonviolence find it hard to accept this response to a turbulent world.
        Then you ignore thousands of years of reality, in which violence in defense is legitimate, common and frequently very effective.  Note that I do not claim it's the only tactic that meets those criteria.  

        Your hate-mail will be graded.

        by PavePusher on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 01:55:07 PM PDT

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    •  AW's are for people who need to blow shit up (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Rogneid

      I can see having AW's if you live some place like the southwest with lots of gang activity, home invasions, car hijackings, junkies supporting their habits with burglaries, and are very well trained in the use of firearms against superior numbers equally well armed.

      If you aren't well trained in their use and not planning to go to war with a number of scary people I'd actually expect the scary people you want to protect yourself from would end up taking your guns and killing you with them.

      Even if you are well trained and live in a scary place I'd propose your best alternative for protection is to move.

      Live Free or Die --- Investigate, Incarcerate

      by rktect on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 04:43:51 AM PDT

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      •  Whew.... (4+ / 0-)

        For a moment, I thought you were talking about my AR- and SKS-pattern rifles.

        Fortunately, mine are only used for target-shooting, hunting and home-defense, so they don't fall under the label of "assault weapons".  

        And I've seen little evidence of people trying to use them in defense having them taken away by the attackers.  Certainly not in any statistically notable numbers.  Maybe you have some evidence of that?

        ...I'd propose your best alternative for protection is to move.
        Yes, we should cede territory to criminal activity.  That will help.  

        Your hate-mail will be graded.

        by PavePusher on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 01:59:33 PM PDT

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    •  And the same people prefer not to deal with (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Rogneid, a2nite, Glen The Plumber, Hirodog

      gun suicides AS gun violence.

      Gun violence is seen as a City problem by rural residents because most of the major crimes occur in urban areas.

      "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

      by LilithGardener on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 04:57:22 AM PDT

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      •  Some of us know the difference: (6+ / 0-)
        Otteray Scribe:

        I can tell you with reasonable certainty that if all firearms in existence were to suddenly vanish, the suicide rate would change very little, if at all. The problem with suicide is motive and intent, not method.  If one way is thwarted, another will be found.  I know from personal experience, including keeping up with the research literature, that if a person is determined to kill themselves, there is virtually no way to prevent it.

        You've created a false "talking point".  

        How about we discuss why 600,000+ Americans attempt suicide each and every year?

        How about we discuss the 38,000+ actual suicides?

        How about we discuss why suicides have increased by 15.4% since 1999 while we're told gun ownership has gone down almost 20%?

        Clearly we are ready, willing and able to discuss these issues honestly.

        Get back to us when you're willing to do the same.

        -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

        by gerrilea on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 05:35:36 AM PDT

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      •  Gun suicides are gun violence (4+ / 0-)

        Request diarist's permission to repost my comment about the cost of gun violence and who is paying for it.

        What's the bottom line?
        The cost of gun violence is born by those who survive, those who must pick up the piece of shattered lives; that may be the person who survived a gunshot, or it may be those who survive the deceased.

        In much of our discussion of firearm death, we speak of gunshot victims in terms of a binary function - did they die on the spot or did they survive. But that is only because the finality of death makes the reporting of it much more timely (usually). The authorities must be called. Next of kin must be notified. Someone must determine the probable cause of death. Accident? Suicide? Homicide?

        Of course there are other factors that influence whether someone will survive a gunshot, such as access to state of the art medical care.

        A few weeks ago the Washington Post published an analysis of firearm suicides, a topic that is difficult for many people to talk about, and compared their findings side by side with homicide data.

        Gun deaths shaped by race in America
        By Dan Keating, Updated: March 22, 2013

        Gun deaths are shaped by race in America. Whites are far more likely to shoot themselves, and African Americans are far more likely to be shot by someone else.
        Washington Post - Gun deaths shaped by race in America - Figure 1 (Image 2)
        Washington Post - Gun deaths shaped by race in America - Figure 1
        The article nails one of the most confounding features of suicide, an aspect that many people find hard to understand, unless they've experienced the dynamic of suicide up close and personal themselves, or with someone they know well.
        The impulse to commit suicide has been described as a trance, and the speed and lethality of a gun make it harder to interrupt the trance. Attempts at suicide are more than 20 times as likely to be fatal when a gun is used.

        (Harvard School of Public Health, Case Fatality Ratio by Method of Self-Harm, United States, 2001).

        The article maps the origins of our national divide on gun safety and breaks out some key findings state-by-state, as gun deaths per 1 million people.
        Washington Post - Gun deaths shaped by race in America - Figure 3 (Image 4)
        Washington Post - Gun deaths shaped by race in America - Figure 3
        "Gun deaths in urban areas are much more likely to be homicides, while suicide is far and away the dominant form of gun death in rural areas. States with the most guns per capita, such as Montana and Wyoming, have the highest suicide rates; states with low gun ownership rates, such as Massachusetts and New York, have far fewer suicides per capita."
        For more detail, they created an interactive map, Gun suicide and homicide: statistics shaped by race. Note: All charts show age-adjusted rate per 1 million people unless noted.

        The summary captures why it is so hard for us to reach agreement about new legislation.

        Contrasting life experiences, whether from a family member’s suicide or the death of a relative in a homicide, drive the nation’s split over an essential element of the gun debate: Would fewer guns save lives? Survivors of homicide victims consistently tell pollsters that the answer is yes, but the response to suicide is different.
        “We have less empathy with those who take their own lives,” said Sean Joe, an expert on suicide and violence at the University of Michigan. “So we don’t have the same national outcry. The key argument for me is that increased access to firearms increases suicide and homicide.”
        Suicide frightens us. Sometimes, it makes us feel impotent, or guilty. We often wonder if there was some way we could have known, or something we could have done. Like homicide, the forward costs of attempted gun suicides are born by the survivors, who too often must also bear extra burdens of shame and regret.

        "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

        by LilithGardener on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 05:45:04 AM PDT

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